kevin922 0 #1 January 17, 2005 Anyone who has seen flight of the phoenix, can you explain this whole using a shotgun shell to start the engine thing? I've never seen that and i'm really scratching my head as to exactly how that one works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #2 January 17, 2005 I haven't seen it either, but I know the british Venom jet trainer is started with a blank shotgun shell. The pressure winds up the turbine to start it. I have heard of radials being started that way. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 January 17, 2005 First of all, I don't know anything about that type of starter method for an aircraft engine. But just guessing; the shotgun shell contained powder and primer only (no shot), to create high pressure gas to get the pistons pumping. Sort of like roll-starting your straight-shift car, by first getting the car rolling, then popping the clutch to transfer the rolling movement to the crankshaft to pump the pistons. I think the first "Flight of the Phoenix" was better. This one was just an exact copy, and since the plot and outcome were predictable and known, this new one was a bit of a disappointment. But that sure is a cool airplane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #4 January 17, 2005 Is it perhaps the same or a similar principle as starting an F1 car with a blast of air? Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #5 January 17, 2005 Hooknswoop is correct, a number of aircraft used this kind of starter (saved weight I guess as you did not need to carry a APU [ Auxillary Power Unit] - which is usually sed to start engines at their home airfield.) One such system was Avpin which used a mono fuel(?) like isopropyl nitrate to great volume of gas. I think that they were used in Javelins and maybe Camberras as well. But on another note. Why oh why does Hollywood keep churning out unremarkable remakes? Have some original thoughs for a change guys!. The original of this film is a classic and does NOT need updating!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakbrother 0 #6 January 17, 2005 They are called cartridge starters and they were quite common for aircraft engines. Used a lot in WWII. See, for example: www.worldzone.net/technology/mike1087/canberra/canberra.html. . www.freak-brother.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakbrother 0 #7 January 17, 2005 Quote But on another note. Why oh why does Hollywood keep churning out unremarkable remakes? Have some original thoughs for a change guys!. The original of this film is a classic and does NOT need updating!! Indeed. The Ladykillers is another example of a remake that would have been better not made at all. PS Is that a RELIANT?. . www.freak-brother.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 January 17, 2005 Jeez dont mention ammo .... or all of the gun nutz from SC will be all over you! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #9 January 17, 2005 Hey Freak,,whats your FB# ? wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #10 January 18, 2005 >can you explain this whole using a shotgun shell to start the engine thing? It's a gas cartridge, intended to generate a large volume of pressurized gas for starting purposes. (Note that the propellant in ammunition is similar, but it's intended for high speed ejection of a bullet, not lower speed pressurization of a starting system.) Other aircraft use similar systems. The Yak-50 aerobatic aircraft uses an air tank to store air under pressure to do the same thing. In jet engines, cartridge start systems provide pressure to spin a little turbine, and this brings the main turbine up to speed. I'm not sure whether the system used on radials (such as the one on the C-119 in question) uses a separate turbine or applies the pressure directly to the intake manifold, thus spinning the engine the way a steam engine operates (at least for a few seconds.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 January 18, 2005 QuoteI think the first "Flight of the Phoenix" was better. This one was just an exact copy, and since the plot and outcome were predictable and known, this new one was a bit of a disappointment. But that sure is a cool airplane. I agree. The first movie is a classic action movie, with an interesting story and plot...now that its been done and done well, trying to directly copy it is a waste.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #12 January 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think the first "Flight of the Phoenix" was better. This one was just an exact copy, and since the plot and outcome were predictable and known, this new one was a bit of a disappointment. But that sure is a cool airplane. I agree. The first movie is a classic action movie, with an interesting story and plot...now that its been done and done well, trying to directly copy it is a waste. "There is no reason to remake a movie unless it was badly made the first time. " - Director John Huston"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut 0 #13 January 18, 2005 QuoteThe Yak-50 aerobatic aircraft uses an air tank to store air under pressure to do the same thing. the f-117 uses this method too to start it's apu........ ______________________________________ "i have no reader's digest version" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 January 24, 2005 Here is 2 pics of a used shell for starting a Venom. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
