Question for the Engineers

[skymama 37]

My son got accepted to attend a special magnet Engineering program for High School at one of the local schools around here. He's talked about being an Architectural Engineer since he was about 10 and he's very bright in science and math, so it seems perfect for him.

The problem is that this isn't the school that his friends will be going to. At the most, there will be 5 kids that he knows in the program and this is really bothering him and making him not want to enter the program. He's thinking of going to his zoned school which is a very good school and ranks high in the area on tests just because of the friends thing.

My question is, do you think this Engineering program will be an advantage when he applies to college in getting scholarships or even getting into a good Engineering college? What are the good colleges around the country that I can look at to see if they also have good soccer programs? His dream is to get a full soccer/academic scholarship and he's good enough at both things so that can actually be a reality for him.

He has to make his decision by tomorrow. Any insight on if colleges acutally look at these specialized courses would be great!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[pilotdave 0]

I'm definitely no expert on the subject... but I do know that universities like to see interest in more than one area. Being a great soccer player might be more useful for getting into an engineering school than attending a special engineering highschool (assuming his SATs/math and science grades are the same). If he wants a soccer scholarship, he should probably go to the highschool with the better soccer team.

Dave

[skymama 37]

Well, he still has to take the normal English, History, Language, etc. that the other students will take at the school and that Florida requires. It's just that the electives and science and math classes will all be geared toward the engineering program.

His current club coach is also the coach at the Engineering HS and he likes him and would love to continue playing for him. They always have a winning season but are in a smaller class than the other school because the school population is smaller. His zoned HS has one of the best schools in the state at their class size and they also always have a winning season, but that coach is also retiring in 1-2 years and there's no telling how the program will change. That's another big thing that he is considering.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[freeflir29 0]

If it was my kid.........He'd be going to the Engineering program. He can still see his friends and play soccer.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

The problem is that this isn't the school that his friends will be going to. At the most, there will be 5 kids that he knows in the program

Reminds me very much of the choice I had when I went off to highschool except for me there were only two others from my junior school going - everyone else was going to another high school.

I went to the better school. I made new friends. I'm glad I made that choice. If he choses to do what's best for his future he'll be making the smart choice. New friends are easy to make, good ones will stay friends regardless of where he goes to school.

Only question I can't help you with is the one you posed I'm afriad - which is the better school choice.

[NightJumper 0]

By all means send him to the academy of engineering magnet program. My son was accepted into the academy of finance and received a full scholarship by the time he graduated and is in college now to become a CPA which makes dad very happy. It also kept his academics focused as it gave him a goal. He also got a really good job straight out of high school by one of his mentors firms that pays very well.

Hope this helps.

Stay safe,
Mike, BSEE

[flyhi 24]

Quote

What are the good colleges around the country that I can look at to see if they also have good soccer programs? His dream is to get a full soccer/academic scholarship and he's good enough at both things so that can actually be a reality for him.

The top two, year after year, are MIT and CalTech, but many others have very good programs as well. Purdue, Michigan, Notre Dame, Stanford, and Wisconsin all have good engineering curriculum. I wouldn't be surprised if even FL, FSU, or Miami didn't have the ability to award an engineering degree. [Caution, shameless plug ahead]West Point also plays soccer and has an excellent engineering program. Everyone's on a scholarship there and they even get paid to go. Yeah, yeah, Navy and Air Force, too.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[wingnut 0]

okay so i'm not an engineer, but my father is does that count??? lol,, guess not..... i would have tosay though that at any school if he chalanges himsef and takes the hard classes and does well he will have just as much chance as the other school, does the subjective high school have higher math classes (i.e calculus) or is that offered at both, can he take per say drafting classes at either (heck my backwoods higschool even had drafting class) it all depends on the classes he would elect to take at the "zoned" HS...... and as most of us know, friends can be a big part of someones life.... being happy and well educated is beter than being not as happy but a little more educated.....


p.s. what are the average grade points at each school... as it is better in my opinon to be 50th in your class with a 3.9 gpa than 10th with a 2.5....... that make sence??

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[rmsmith 1]

CalPoly, SLO where I graduated from with a Civil Engineering degree, has an ArchEng program that is widely accepted by the building industry. Basically it is a Structural Engineering program with additional material added, and the educational program is lengthy too. I have friend who went through the program, but his employer has him doing construction management duties these days as he also enjoys collaborating with other professionals.

I'm not sure what the colleges look at in their application decisions, but it's not always an achievement based decision. CalPoly only accepts 30% of the applicants, and I got in based on high grades from a junior college and a veteran's preference. The first year there was a gauntlet too as they washout scores of hopeful students who found they simply couldn't maintain the pace. If your son has what its going to take he will choose his studies over his friends who have other goals.

All the engineering students I knew were devoted. For example, on Valentine's day the ladies I knew stayed home to study rather than waste precious time on a dinner, and I'm sure their boyfriends studied likewise, or they would be dumped for lack of enthusiasm.

[rehmwa 2]

Call the recruiting offices at the specific colleges you are interested in and ask them directly. Anything else is just guesswork.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,584]

I'm not an engineer, but I play one, and I went to a school with a strong engineering program.

Well-rounded is VERY important, along with grades. I know a valedictorian who was rejected from my alma-mater for not having enough extracurricular activities.

That said, something to consider -- if he goes to the magnet school, he'll be surrounding himself with kids who are more interested than average in what they're doing. Which means they're probably more interesting to be around as well. And motivated to do well. Those things are very contagious.

I'd say go to the magnet school. Make sure that you make it easy for him to get together with his other friends, too, though.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skymama 37]

I'm on hold right now with the closest one I know, UCF, that has both a good Engineering and soccer program.
Interesting...they said while the Engineering HS classes would make it easier for him once he got into the Engineering program at a school, those classes aren't weighed any heavier at Admissions for them to make their decision. Only AP classes are weighted heavier, which are offered at both schools.

I guess I answered my own question!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[larsrulz 0]

Quote

My question is, do you think this Engineering program will be an advantage when he applies to college in getting scholarships or even getting into a good Engineering college? What are the good colleges around the country that I can look at to see if they also have good soccer programs? His dream is to get a full soccer/academic scholarship and he's good enough at both things so that can actually be a reality for him.

I went to a Math and Science Academy (public residential school that requires admission). From both myself and the many people I know from there, good engineering programs love this type of thing. I go to the University of Illinois which has the 3rd best Aerospace Engineering program in the country (follows MIT and Stanford) and when I had originally applied for my bachelor's I was told that they accepted me on my high school alone, and didn't even look over my recommendations and grades (this was a transfer after two years of high school). Even today when I am applying for jobs over 5 years later, every interviewer brings it up, and sounds impressed by it.

As far as scholarships go, I don't think it helps that much. Smaller schools will give him big old scholarships based on it (In my case UM Rolla, Miami (Ohio), Embry Riddle, etc), but the top o' the line schools will care much more about things like grades, SAT/ACT, extracurricular, etc. It will certainly help with getting accepted, but scholarships are a completely different thing. In my less than stellar case, MIT said "sure you can come if you can fork over $60K a year," so I politely declined.

All that said, if I were to go back I wouldn't do it over again. There is something to be said for a normal childhood. If he can continue to be involved in the things he likes and just change schools, then that is fine, but if it is going to completely change what he's able to, then I would say it isn't worth it. Although there is a big difference between a magnet high school and a residential high school, and I'm sure I would have liked the magnet option much more. Working hard at any school (especially if already a good one) will get him wherever he wants!

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

I'm on hold right now with the closest one I know, UCF, that has both a good Engineering and soccer program.

Best engineering school (in the world?) MIT.

Send him to study magnets - soccer is after school and weekends - success is forever

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

That said, something to consider -- if he goes to the magnet school, he'll be surrounding himself with kids who are more interested than average in what they're doing. Which means they're probably more interesting to be around as well. And motivated to do well. Those things are very contagious.

Couldn't have said that better myself.

[skymama 37]

Quote

soccer is after school and weekends - success is forever

Well, for him, soccer is a way to get college paid for and he knows it. I, my ex and our 3 brothers all received swimming scholarships for college, so he wants that for himself also. He's been playing since he was 5 and is quite driven. He's been picked to compete for a slot on the state team this year. Soccer is his life, but he also understands the importance of education and I'm lucky that he loves getting straight A's as much as he enjoys winning in soccer.

And before anyone thinks we're pushing him to be like this, we're not. He begs us to play soccer, do extra training with a personal trainer, join indoor soccer during the off season, etc. He does sit-ups and push-ups before bed every night. He's the only 13 year old I know with a 6-pack! Like I said, he's driven. I want to be like him when I grow up.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[billvon 3,107]

If it has a good academic program and he wants to go - then by all means encourage him to go. It is definitely an advantage in terms of getting into an engineering college as long as the engineering program still does a competent job teaching writing (which is probably the third most important skill in terms of getting into an engineering college.)

[NightJumper 0]

Quote

I want to be like him when I grow up.

You are going to grow up? Yikes

[larsrulz 0]

Quote

(which is probably the third most important skill in terms of getting into an engineering college.)

And probably the MOST important once you get out!

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

as long as the engineering program still does a competent job teaching writing

No doubt........I'm rather mathematically impaired but I get along well in life because I write well. Being able to communicate well is important.

[n23x 0]

Quote

soccer is after school and weekends - success is forever

My suggestion is to gather as much input from the person whom this will actually affect: your son.
That being said, while magnet schools may have better appearing curriculum, teachers, or supplies, I would encourage you to lean towards the school with the most available hands on activity. (The AP class issue is null if they're available at both schools). Hands on knowledge will improve his chances for success far more than the choice of highschool, irregardless of specialty.

Some of the brightest people that I know make the worst engineers, because they lack the actual experience which cannot be grasped by simply reading a book.

Encourage the AP classes to the extent that he's comfortable with them, and find a choice for the school that he will be happy with. If he's as driven as he sounds, college acceptance and preparation won't be a problem.

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[Stacy 0]

you know, kids change in high school. the people that are his friends now may not be in high school. IN a magnet program, everyone will be new faces to each other. I went to a *different* high school for the International Baccalaureate program. Met plenty of people and don't regret it at all.

• Quote

[gravityizsexy 0]

Quote

If it was my kid.........He'd be going to the Engineering program. He can still see his friends and play soccer.

That is "word for word", exactly, something my dad would
say, knowing full well.. that my friends wouldn't be included
in his initial equation.


It seems like a really good opportunity to me, even
if he doesn't plan to be an architect. Sounds like a
really smart kid too. Math and science are the building blocks
of a genius...(as my dad would say) Not that I know or anything. and btw,
colleges and universities would most definitely look at
his participation in specialized programs such as the
one mentioned. It could also tarnish his transcripts as
well if he doesn't perform.

Conclusion: Find out as much as you can from the program
coordinator. If the class has more than 15 students,
it's probably a district money ploy. 8 students or less, they
will soak up all that is taught (If the teacher is good). It all comes down to
if YOU feel comfortable sending him. You say he understands math and has vision.. that's all he needs... In my
book.

CAUTION: I was real mad at my father for MAKING me
take classes I didn't want to. But I'm glad he did what
he did. Friends come and go... I used to think they'd
be around forever... I still like to think that way but
ya know, I lose to reality sometimes... (we fight alot).
But if your son wants to go, let him go... I mean,
why not?

EDITED:
OOOoooOOOoo
Soccer!!!... (A mean, mean, fun... sport)
hrmmmm.... thats a tuffy.
I'd still send him to the magnet school and see how
things play out from there.

"'Someday is not a day in my week'"

[n23x 0]

Quote

the people that are his friends now may not be in high school...Met plenty of people and don't regret it at all.

You know Stacy, I absolutely agree with you. My above statements were in no reference to him being/not being around his friends. I do believe that his input in the decision is important, even if he doesn't have the final say (which, at 13, I'm guessing not )

.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

[happythoughts 0]

His old friends will remain his friends. At his new school, he'll make new friends.

My cousin (former roommate) has 2 girls. When their mother moved from one side of town to another, they had to change schools. They made new friends and were fine.

Friends are fickle in high school. I wouldn't make life decisions based on them.