SkiD_PL8 0 #1 February 4, 2005 In our wireless ethics discussion yesterday someone brought up the idea of wardriving for open networks owned by businesses and offering to secure them for a fee. I went wardriving last night and found tons of them and plan on trying it out however I can't decide what is a fair price to charge. I am open to suggestions. I am thinking a set fee for securing the network and then a set fee for every computer I configure to be compatible with it as opposed to a by the hour fee because I hate being penalized for working fast. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #2 February 4, 2005 I would set a flat fee based on the configuration. Remember your market will dry up pretty fast if you have businesses letting you fix their WiFi's. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #3 February 4, 2005 Quote I would set a flat fee based on the configuration. Remember your market will dry up pretty fast if you have businesses letting you fix their WiFi's. Yeah, I have a good job this is just some extra income on the side. Any configuration is basicly the same ammount of work the only thing that will add to the work is configuring the individual PC's and laptops to be compatible with it. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beeron 0 #4 February 4, 2005 Are you going to do WEP or MAC filtering? B~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #5 February 4, 2005 I would do both if possible depending on how many machines connecting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jazzjumper 0 #7 February 4, 2005 Have you done any reserach with small computer companies to figure out what they might charge to configure a WiFi network (all software/hardware already in place)? I certainly would go for a flat fee for the configuration plus a fee per device secured. I'd take some time to work on the sales pitch, and be prepared to show them how you figured it out. While they might be pissed you found them, I'm sure they'd much preferred being more secure. No matter how good she looks, someone, somewhere is sick of her shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #8 February 4, 2005 Yeah, it's a good idea, and perfectly legal. BUT I bet you are a lot of bad feedback. If you don't I would be thrilled. But you tend to get a lot of "No you can't that is illegal" there was some thread in here jsut the other day where Bill Von was saying as much that it was legal, and everyone had a hard time believing it. The problem is these days, noone really knows, they just believe what would make sense based on the corporate advertising baked into their head. That being said, are you just configuring WAPs or clients too? If you are configuring the clients, you better not charge a flat fee. Compiling a hundred MACs, then entering them, and setting up wep on each one, is a lot worse than a small network of 5. And what happens when they get a new machine? do you they call you? or are they competent enough to access the router and add a MAC?-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #9 February 4, 2005 I plan on doing both, if I am going to provide a service I want it to be the best service possible. As for the sales pitch I am ready for that, I really just need to determine a price for configuring the network and the individual PC's. Calling local companies and asking them what they would charge might give me a good idea but I am really providing more service than them because I am acticvely seeking out the networks myself so I think it would be fair to charge a bit more. However at the same time I would hate for them to find out about the problem when I tell them then call a local company who would then undercut my price. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 February 4, 2005 I learned the really hard way last year most of the WiFi routers that are in use will only allow MAC filtering of up to about 32 Clients. Some routers like the Cisco will allow a lot more, but its going to be a rare day when you find someone that bought all the Cisco routers and cards then never did anything with them. Linksys, Netgear, MS, DLink all have limits from 25-32 for MAC filtering. If you have the possibility of having more then 25 clients then I'd look for other options other then MAC filtering. Most small business can easly go over this limit. Most my branch offices could go over it for that matter Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #11 February 4, 2005 Quote Yeah, it's a good idea, and perfectly legal. BUT I bet you are a lot of bad feedback. If you don't I would be thrilled. But you tend to get a lot of "No you can't that is illegal" there was some thread in here jsut the other day where Bill Von was saying as much that it was legal, and everyone had a hard time believing it. The problem is these days, noone really knows, they just believe what would make sense based on the corporate advertising baked into their head. That being said, are you just configuring WAPs or clients too? If you are configuring the clients, you better not charge a flat fee. Compiling a hundred MACs, then entering them, and setting up wep on each one, is a lot worse than a small network of 5. And what happens when they get a new machine? do you they call you? or are they competent enough to access the router and add a MAC?It is by all means legal, I am sure there will be people that question that, but I am well versed on the topic and ready to rebut as soon as it comes up. As I stated earlier it would be one fee for the WAP and an additional fee per client setup to connect to said WAP. I hadn't thought of the issue of them wanting to expand at a later date but that could easily be solved by leaving a business card with them so they could call me when and if that happens. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 February 4, 2005 I've been wardriving off and on for 3 years. 95% or higher of the networks that I've ran across are private, personal networks and they could give a shit less about locking them down. In some cases its really easy to identify who the owner of the network is because they are the only house in range, but what are you going to do if you pick up a signal and can't determine exactly which business/house its coming from? Knock door to door asking if they have a wireless network and if so if they want you to secure it? Sniffing the packets to see if you can get a PC name or any info is illegal (see wiretaping laws), and the SSID is typically Netgear/LinkSys (~75% in my experience)/Dlink. Unless they have changed something its going to be really hard for you to tell the difference between store in a Strip mall or apartments.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #13 February 4, 2005 A question an be patient I'm not a puter wiz So you have a laptop with a card an go driving find open (unsecure) networks. now the question is "How do you know whose network it is, lets say thier is a building with 10 floors an 15 companies, How do you know witch door to knock on." I hope it's not a stupid question, Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beeron 0 #14 February 4, 2005 That's the point that PhreeZone is making....it's going to be really hard to tell where the access point is originating from since there's rarely a unique SSID that would identify the business. B~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #15 February 4, 2005 The business district here has literally no apartments or houses close. As for knowing which network is which yes I will go in and inquire. I have a good idea which companies are in posession of about the first 10 I have found and am going to basicly do a test group with them and see how it goes. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #16 February 4, 2005 Let me clarify there is a large comercial holding in the town I live in but most of them are vendors for walmart and are just small offices in single story buildings and several did have unique SSID's they were just completely open. I have the logistics figured out I just really need to decide on the price. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #17 February 4, 2005 Agreed, and I hope you are right....just sauing rebutting is a bad way to start a sales pitch.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #18 February 4, 2005 If I was a business and you walked in and asked "Pardon me, do you have a wireless network? Yes? Can I secure it for you?" I'd laugh you out of my office faster then you can blink. Something you might want to think about is liablity insurance for a business like this. If you go and lock down the network and they need to add another PC down the road and they can't due to not having the settings you can expect for them to come knocking on your door asking to fix it now, or be sued. I freelanced odd jobs while in school after work doing PC stuff and it was a really fine line I was on. And I would only work on personal PC's. Companies usually want to do at least some background checks on anyone they let into take a look at their computers. Refrences at a min. Mom and Pop business are scared that you'll change everything and they can't log in again. Small business are scared you'll steal the data from their PC's and Mid-size to large companies usually due full Vendor Due Diligence to verify you are insured, have the skills you say you do and will be around in a year if they need more work done. Its a good idea, but ask /. about it and you'll see just how clueless people are and they don't want to be smarter.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #19 February 4, 2005 True, but it will definately be required for this particular business venture. I am a good salesman and I am confident that I can sell them my services as long as I can determine where the signal is comeing from. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #20 February 4, 2005 Quote If I was a business and you walked in and asked "Pardon me, do you have a wireless network? Yes? Can I secure it for you?" I'd laugh you out of my office faster then you can blink. You just have to be a better salesman the pitch will be more along the lines of "I have determined that there is an unprotected wireless network somewhere in this building if it is yours you could have bandwidth stolen along with confidential documents both of which can cost your company a considerable ammount of money" Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #21 February 4, 2005 >"I have determined that there is an unprotected wireless network >somewhere in this building if it is yours you could have bandwidth stolen > along with confidential documents both of which can cost your company a > considerable ammount of money" Imagine someone came into your store and said "I have determined that the locks on your warehouse are easy to pick. If you give me the keys, allow me unlimited access to the warehouse and allow me to change the locks and security systems, I will make it more secure." Would you do it? Or would you wonder if they have a truck that needs filling? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #22 February 4, 2005 Quote >"I have determined that there is an unprotected wireless network >somewhere in this building if it is yours you could have bandwidth stolen > along with confidential documents both of which can cost your company a > considerable ammount of money" Imagine someone came into your store and said "I have determined that the locks on your warehouse are easy to pick. If you give me the keys, allow me unlimited access to the warehouse and allow me to change the locks and security systems, I will make it more secure." Would you do it? Or would you wonder if they have a truck that needs filling? I don't think that analogy applies. With the locks that would require tools which are used solely by thieves and locksmiths. With the WiFi all it requires is any laptop with a WiFi card which is very common around here. I am sure I will meet resistance but I think you guys are more paranoid than me. I am confident that once I show them that it doesn't take any devious tricks to access it and that anyone with their laptop set to automaticly connect to unprotected networks will connect automaticly I am sure the barriers will come down. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkiD_PL8 0 #23 February 4, 2005 By the way guys don't think I am blowing off your opinions they are all valid and will better prepare me for what to expect and how to handle things when this comes to fruition. Greenie in training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #24 February 4, 2005 > With the locks that would require tools which are used solely by >thieves and locksmiths. Or a bristle from a streetcleaner and a file. >I am sure I will meet resistance but I think you guys are more paranoid > than me. We are definitely more paranoid than you! But believe me, any company's IT department is going to be ten times more paranoid than any of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #25 February 4, 2005 Quote But believe me, any company's IT department is going to be ten times more paranoid than any of us. I'm probally one of the most paranoid ones out there My password is GOD since thats what I head all 3733t people use and I want to be one of them Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
