Free connection is it ethical

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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I'm at $29 a month for DSL and can live with it.
Getting legally bit in the butt later on, keeps me in line.

If that is why you don't use open wireless networks don't worry any longer. To steal you have gain unauthorized access, as long as the access points you connect to are open they are fair game, however if you manage to get someones SSID if it isn't broadcast or their encrytpion key and connect then you are on unsafe ground.

Greenie in training.

[Zep 0]

This is fun, just to see if I could I connected for a while
the signal is exellent
so I opened Firefox using the linksys
an then opened IE using my router
I had DZ.com in stereo
half screen looking at SC an half screen with BF
It was fun but as I said I'm basically honest
so I've now disconnected, After all it's not nice to take someone
elses bandwidth

Gone fishing

[beowulf 1]

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Most people would just use the default settings. Linksys wireless routers or access points do not have any wizard that jumps up as soon as the user turns on their computer. You have to go to the routers ipaddress in a web browser. The default setting do not have any encription or MAC exclusions.

My personal wireless 802.11G router I use at home is a linksys. I find it odd that mine came with a CD you could pop in and it would fully configure your network to be secure and even the computers you wanted to connect to it wirelessly with to be compatible with that network and oter linksys routers wouldn't. Mine is using WEP encryption and not broadcasting the SSID and all of that was done by the wizard on the CD.

Alot of people don't use the CD. Either they are not confidant enough to use it or are just in a hurry. I personally throw the CD in the garabage, because I have set them up so many times that I don't need the CD.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Maybe they skimped on the 802.11b models not sure. I still feel the same way though, if someone leaves it open it is on their own accord. Everyone knows a guru and if they don't you can crack open the yellow pages and find tons of techs in any town willing to do the work for a price.

You are making the assumption that everyone KNOWS their system is open. It is not apparent to the average consumer. They would need to know the problem exists to call a "guru".

But whatever, use the bandwidth all ya want. Like I said, my ethics on this topic are low... plus my system is locked.

But don't assume that users are smart enough or savvy enough to recognize problems they cannot see.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Slappie 9]

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But don't assume that Lusers are smart enough or savvy enough to recognize problems they cannot see.

There I had to fix the typo GTA it was buggin me big time!

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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Maybe they skimped on the 802.11b models not sure. I still feel the same way though, if someone leaves it open it is on their own accord. Everyone knows a guru and if they don't you can crack open the yellow pages and find tons of techs in any town willing to do the work for a price.

You are making the assumption that everyone KNOWS their system is open. It is not apparent to the average consumer. They would need to know the problem exists to call a "guru".

But whatever, use the bandwidth all ya want. Like I said, my ethics on this topic are low... plus my system is locked.

But don't assume that users are smart enough or savvy enough to recognize problems they cannot see.

I have no problem with that statement. I am sure alot of them don't. When you look at the SSID and it is like "linksys" for example. If however I see the SSID is at least changed I would be willing to bet they know enough to know their network is vulnerable. The whole point of leaving WAP's open was to share bandwidth publicly without needing to know specific info about the network to connect.

Greenie in training.

[Nightingale 0]

Probably not ethical.

But seriously, if they're too ignorant to know to secure their network, they shouldn't have one in the first place.

[beowulf 1]

Does that mean it is okay to take advantage of other peoples ingnorance?

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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Does that mean it is okay to take advantage of other peoples ingnorance?

To say how I feel in not so many words... YES

Greenie in training.

[Nightingale 0]

no.

I said they shouldn't have a network if they don't know how to secure it (or know that they should secure it!).

Personally, I wouldn't take advantage of it. However, they are asking for problems from people who don't know they shouldn't log on to other's networks, or don't care.

[SkiD_PL8 0]

I wouldn't suck up all of someones bandwidth. If I am on an open network I would only do web browsing or e-mail, things like that, not go to skydivingmovies and start downloading everything I see

Greenie in training.

[AndyMan 7]

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Probably not ethical.

Not addressed to you in particular.

How do you tell the difference between someone who's openly giving access, and someone who doesn't know better?

Securing wireless access points is dirt easy. Even if you aren't interested in figuring out WEP, or encryption keys, enabling the MAC filter is simple.

Every wireless router I've seen comes with a glossy 5 page instruction manual that shows even technophiles how to do it.

Securing a wireless router is so simple, you have to conclude that people who haven't secured it either purposely left it unsecured, or just don't care.

I suspect the majority of cases is the latter.

Either way, no - not unethical to take whats offered for free.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Nightingale 0]

It's not that they don't care, it's that even though the manual says they can secure it, they don't know that they SHOULD, or why. I had to talk to my friend's mom about it... I opened my laptop at her house, and the computer asked me if I wanted to log on to their network. Once I told them about the problems of having an unsecured network, they fixed it.

[Darminion 0]

the guy that owns a computer shop that I used to work for drives around town with his laptop and a wi-fi card looking for open networks that shouldn't be open and offers his services to fix the problem with their network.

If you jack into their connection and hog bandwidth and mess with their computer systems then no it is not ethical.

Finding open networks to help protect them is a service that many many business need because most small businesses don't have the capacity to have a network admin to know that this type of thing is occuring.

Anvile Brother #59

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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the guy that owns a computer shop that I used to work for drives around town with his laptop and a wi-fi card looking for open networks that shouldn't be open and offers his services to fix the problem with their network.

If you jack into their connection and hog bandwidth and mess with their computer systems then no it is not ethical.

Finding open networks to help protect them is a service that many many business need because most small businesses don't have the capacity to have a network admin to know that this type of thing is occuring.

That is not a bad idea actually I may start doing that. There are tons of open networks around here. From my apartment alone last time I checked there were 6+ with good signal strength.

Greenie in training.

[flyingferret 0]

Bill is well educated here, as usuall. The FCC regs read exactly like that, and it has been challenged at multiple schools, libraries, etc. And they stand!
It is broadcast radio.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[billvon 3,107]

>The problem with that is that the average homeowner with braodband
>does not know HOW to lock their system down.

So? The average homeowner may not even realize that his yard lights light up my yard too. Doesn't mean it's wrong to use the light to see in my backyard.

>I can bet most of them are not leaving open to be generous.

That's fine; they can decide to not be generous if they so choose. It takes about 30 seconds to read the manual and enable WEP (or whatever other security features their manual tells them to use.)

Edited to add - someone else made the very good point that while it is not unethical to use someone else's connection, it's certainly rude to use up a lot of their bandwidth. I once had a wireless connection to a neighbor, never figured out which one. I'd check email and read dropzone.com occasionally. If I had to download/upload anything larger than about 500K I'd queue it and have the computer do it at 4am. (And if it was really large I'd just do it at work and take a zip disk home.)

Now that I have DSL and my own network I leave it open for people who want to use it. I've seen a few different DHCP addresses using it at various times.

[bobsled92 0]

I work for the Co. that's also my ISP (no emplyee discount) Same with my cell service.
I am required to play it safe on all counts.
Security checks on employees 1st then the public.
That's their priority mode.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[SkiD_PL8 0]

Yeah you just have to understand that you are doing nothing wrong. It is not stealing bandwidth from the ISP the bandwidth IS paid for.

Greenie in training.

[marks 0]

i renamed my wireless connection "INFECTED" just in case. lol...an of course the 128 bit encryption is running.

[wingnut 0]

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The problem with that is that the average homeowner with braodband does not know HOW to lock their system down. I can bet most of them are not leaving open to be generous.

don't know about all companies, but my wifi router cam with a instruction booklet.. a pretty dumbed down one to that gave very easy instructions on how to encrypt the network... took me about 2 minutes to do it with the insructions.... if i didn't want the secrity of having an always there conection iwould of used the 3 that came up on y laptops card.......

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[mnealtx 0]

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Yeah you just have to understand that you are doing nothing wrong.

Depends on what you consider wrong, I suppose...

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It is not stealing bandwidth from the ISP the bandwidth IS paid for.

You're not stealing bandwidth from the ISP but from your neighbor...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Lindsey 0]

How could this hurt the person whose free connection you are using? What is a person, whose connection is open, leaving himself open to?

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[wildblue 7]

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It is not stealing bandwidth from the ISP the bandwidth IS paid for.

I'd be willing to bet it's 'stealing' from the ISP. I'm sure there's something in there saying it's only to be used at that location. I'm sure it'd be illegal if I split my neighbor's cable connection.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[billvon 3,107]

> How could this hurt the person whose free connection you are using?

If you download multi-gigabyte files you could slow down the connection he sees. Also, if you download kiddie porn or something, the download could be traced to his account and they could come after him. So I think it's definitely unethical (and pretty rude to boot) to do either of those things.