freefall88 0 #1 April 19, 2009 I'm putting together my first rig and am looking for a used reserve, but my question is what is the max reserve age I should start looking? I've heard 10 years, 15 years, and lots of other things, but I need some more input. Ideally a new reserve would be the best option, but at this point I can't afford to get all new stuff. I'd like to get as cheap as possible, but at what age do I start to sacrifice safety? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #2 April 19, 2009 QuoteI'm putting together my first rig and am looking for a used reserve, but my question is what is the max reserve age I should start looking? I've heard 10 years, 15 years, and lots of other things, but I need some more input. Ideally a new reserve would be the best option, but at this point I can't afford to get all new stuff. I'd like to get as cheap as possible, but at what age do I start to sacrifice safety? Thanks! It's more a question of design and number of repacks. More modern designs have span-wise reinforcing tapes that will keep the canopy together during high-speed deployments, as during a Cypres fire at freefly speeds due to inattention doing those things or being knocked out on an AFF jump. The reserve I saw separate into 2 and 5 cell pieces only stayed together because of its single reinforcing tape at the tail seam. With tapes accross all line attachments the owner's injuries probably would hae been less severe. PD reserves have always had the tapes. The current Raven R-Max has span-wise tapes, the previous -M had span-wise bottom skin construction, and older Super/Micro/un prefixed ravens traditional chord-wise construction. Tempos got span wise tapes in 2001, older ones did not have them. Smarts are new and have always had tapes. Most of the wear on a reserve comes from packing, with porosity increasing and strength decreasing. PD calls for inspection at the factory after 40 repacks which would be 13 years if the reserve was continuously in service and packed according to US requirements. Gear often ends up spending a lot of time in closets. For instance I have a second riig which was rarely getting jumped and hasn't been in service or packed for 3 years. In places with unpleasant winters DZs many skydivers skip the season and repack which would go with it. My first rig only had 80 jumps on it before the original owner stopped jumping, plus a few years of storage before he decided he wasn't going to continue and ought to get his money back. Provided that the storage is in a cool dry place and there aren't leaking AAD batteries the time doesn't count. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gary73 10 #3 April 20, 2009 Most riggers have no problem packing a reserve that's up to 20 years old. Some will go to 25 or 30 years, with a thorough inspection. If you're unsure about buying a particular canopy, ask the rigger you'll be using to act as an escrow agent and inspect the canopy before you pay for it. A legitimate seller will be okay with that, at least within the same country. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 April 20, 2009 Calendar age or number of deployments or number of repacks are all ways to measure the "life" of a reserve, but I prefer to look at different levels of technology. For example, an old-time skydiver recently asked us to sell his 1981-vintage, 5-cell Safety Star reserve. We had a good laugh! Something about me selling my Strato Star main in 1983! Up until recently, many local skydivers tried to save money by buying Ravens. Remember that Ravens (and Swift and Fury and FTS) were designed back in the early 1980s when few people were loading main canopies at one pound per square foot. Micro Ravens sold great until a local jumper busted himself up while landing a tiny Raven. The morale of this story is that Ravens work great as long as you don't load them beyond one pound per square foot. Fast forward to 1989, when Performance Designs introduced the first reserve designed to be loaded more than one pound per square foot. "PD" series reserves were so well regarded that many of their competitors were forced to develop similar reserves (Amigo, Icarus, Smart, Techno, Tempo, etc.) that could be loaded beyond 1:1. After making "PD" series reserves for 18 years, Performance Designs decided that - in order to stay ahead of the competition, they had to develop something better, so they introduced the Optimum series of reserves that open and fly slightly better than earlier products, but the main difference is in pack volume. I have only packed an Optimum 253 reserve, but it packed gracefully (read "too easy" into a container originally designed for a 200 square foot reserve. Other manufacturers are now scrambling to source low-volume fabric. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefal 0 #5 April 20, 2009 I was in the same boat you are in quite a few years ago when I was putting together my first rig. I ended up getting everything new, except for the reserve. I put an old 5-cell reserve in my fancy new rig and unfortunately had to use it after a while. On my first jump under it, one of the toggles stuck and I almost had a not-so-graceful reserve landing, so I got rid of it the next day and ordered a new reserve. My advice to you would be to get the newest reserve you can. Used is ok, but get the newest model from whatever manufacturer you can due to the manufacturing advances mentioned above. In the end, the most important things are a good container and a good reserve. Everything else can be used and ugly until you save up enough money for that nice new main or other accessory. "Ignorance is bliss" and "Patience is a virtue"... So if you're stupid and don't mind waiting around for a while, I guess you can have a pretty good life! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #6 April 21, 2009 Get a brand new reserve first and the other components used,,then as you get into it future monies can buy you the new gear that makes you cool. Do not do it the other way around !!! Do you want your last chance to be something used ? The fact that people post here looking for info like that, tells me they are not spending much time thinking of the global personal skydiving picture... smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bliston 0 #7 April 21, 2009 I'd disagree. If you can buy one thing new, buy a container that fits you properly and get all the other components used. A 10 or 15 year old PD reserve will be just a safe as a brand new one - they haven't changed the design.Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #8 April 21, 2009 I agree with Ben. But realistically it's two fold : If you are always getting cold feet because of gear fear - get a new reserve, it's the cheapest part of the skydiving system. If you understand and trust a competent rigger to give a used reserve a clean bill of health - buy a new container with your colors and most of all that fits you well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #9 April 21, 2009 Quote Get a brand new reserve first and the other components used,,then as you get into it future monies can buy you the new gear that makes you cool. Do not do it the other way around !!! Do you want your last chance to be something used ? Actually, yes. Because it's been proven to work if it had 1 or more rides and it's been seen a few times often by different riggers. All my 7 reserve rides have been on used reserves, except for one they were quite enjoyable and I promptly sold the one reserve I didn't like as much as the others I've jumped. Newer isn't always better, a proven design is a plus in my book and a proven canopy of a proven design I can get for cheaper than new, I do not say no to. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #10 April 21, 2009 As I'm sure you know, the original 5-cell Swift (only 1 size was available) reserve is no longer a good choice at all, but the Swift Plus (7 cell) was much better. I've had 2 rides under a Swift Plus (a 200, and a 225 ft2). Both were VERY easy to land, and as I remember, have lots of reinforcing built in. The mfg, Paraflite, has been making only military equipment for some time, but my 225 was made in about 2000, so there should still be some of those on the market that aren't ancient.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #11 April 21, 2009 A big plus of a swift 5 cell is that it is CHEAP. Don't have any jumps on them myself, I prefer more modern designs, but there are still quite a few here in CRW rigs and the like. And a friend of mine, a fairly heavy guy, had a reserve ride last year on a swift 5cell, his camera sidemount bracket sheared off a few lines of the swift during opening but he liked the canopy so much he had it fixed!!! ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,465 #12 April 21, 2009 Hi sundevel, I have one emergency ride on a 5-cell Swift. I also have at least one emergency ride on a 7-cell Swift Plus 175. At the time ( both times ) I weighed about 175 naked ( not a pretty sight ) and landed both canopies very easily. IMO, no matter what reserve you have in your rig it should not be over-loaded. Check with the mfrs for their loading recommendations and follow them. Just my $0.02, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #13 April 21, 2009 I had a brand new container, brand new main, and a 15 year old Reserve (1992 PD 160R) when I first bought new equipment. Two years later I had my first reserve ride on that $600 reserve, and guess what....It worked just fine!!! And I'm still jumping that reserve at 18 years old. It can be done. Have a rigger inspect it!Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaRusic 0 #14 April 22, 2009 just as a point of intrest, dont mean to hijack the thread. I was looking through my packing card today after reading this thread and whos name is on the data card but Mr riggerrob himself, back in 2001, 4 years before i even started skydiving haha. anyways sorry to get off topic but i just think its pretty cool how small of a world skydiving can beThe Altitude above you, the runway behind you, and the fuel not in the plane are totally worthless Dudeist Skydiver # 10 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
