When faded friends fade back in

[ChrisL 2]

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Have you let her know just how much it bothers you that she doesn't believe in you?

I dont have enough fingers and toes to keep a count of how many times I've told her this.
She then always replies that she DOES trust me.

What can you say to a statement that is so obviously wrong?

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It isn't the insecurity that drives you nuts directly, but the fact that it drives a wedge between you, puts you in the position of having to hide things, and that you feel as though she doesn't trust you when she refuses to believe what you say?

Man did you ever just score a direct hit on the heart of the matter.

I cant adequately describe how I feel when, after a lifetime of being an honorable, honest man, she blithly calls my honor and integrity into question for NO reason.

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Everyone else here hit on the idiot and asshole comments. But you also say you dearly love your wife. Make sure she knows that and work with her instead of against her or behind her back to help you both learn to cope with things like this. If not, it will be a reoccurring theme forever.

You (and others) are correct. I should not call my wife names no matter how frustrated I am.
She has one problem. In all other areas I could not ask for a better wife. Unfortunately that one problem is HUGE

Thanks to you all for the advice.

__

My mighty steed

[brierebecca 0]

I have a couple cents to add to this topic. I recently got engaged to a wonderful man, and I continued to maintain casual phone and email type relationships with 2 of my ex-boyfriends. When he let me know that talking to these men bothered him, I immediately let those relationships die off. It's not for me to say how he should feel about me talking to my ex-boyfriends, and I prefer not to judge him on that point. To me, it was much more important to have my fiance feel less threatened and more comfortable in our relationship than it was to keep up my already casual relationships with those two men. Relationships are about give and take. And that give and take, especially in a marriage, cannot be 50/50. It's got to be 100/100. And if this is the only area in which you have to support her 100% in your marriage, whether its severing your ties with your ex or working out her insecurities in some other, more productive way, I'd say not only should that be your perogative, it's also your obligation

mua!

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[Ladybug 0]

My husband directed me to this thread because we can both understand your dilema.

Yes, some women are insecure, but that insecurity was taught to them. Don't forget that the people we are today is simply a reflection of the many life experiences that have led us to this point. Be glad that you have either had MOSTLY positive life experiences, OR you've been strong enough to cope and keep up a high level of confidence and self esteem.

Maybe you have ALWAYS been trustworthy in the past, and you believe that this is not your problem. This creates a new problem because the whole idea of marriage is "two become one." That whole "for better or for worse" idea comes into play.

Your wife may have experiences from her past that you are unaware of. Her worries about loosing you sound like a classic case of an "abandonment issue." Fear of abandonment can be created by soooooooo many different kinds of life experiences that many people don't even think about it: loss of loved one due to death, divorce, moving, changing schools; loss of a friend or boyfriend who chooses to walk away; abuse as a child (physical, mental, emotional).... the list is far too long for this post.

No, I'm not a psychologist, I'm an abandonment survivor.

My husband and I have agreed to an idea that we both live by:

"IF I CAN'T TELL MY SPOUSE ABOUT IT, I CAN'T DO IT!"

If this old friend is truly a friend, then she wouldn't want to do anything to hurt your marriage. If you respect your marriage, then you would never consider keeping secret friends and correspondences away from your wife.

Don't listen to the single people of this world who are so shocked that another person might have a say in what you do, who you see, where you go... They haven't made the commitment you have. You're on a different life level.

To the married people who say they still hang out with friends of the opposite sex, I say be careful. Hanging out with FRIENDS at the dropzone or FRIENDS at a local bar or FRIENDS anywhere is one thing. Keeping a friendship with ONE friend of the opposite sex (and by that I mean corresponding or seeing this person on a one-to-one basis), and keeping this friendship a secret, is just asking for trouble. Be realistic - most of the people who end up having affairs once called that other person "just a friend."

Try to reconnect with your wife. You've already said that in other areas, your marriage is strong. Focus on that. Tell her that your old flame/friend has contacted you and you'd like them to meet. But in the long run, your wife must be the most important woman in your life. (Don't tell your mother I said that ).

Oh yeah, by the way, my husband was my high school flame. We went our separate ways after high school. Me to college, him to the Army. We remained "friends" for 8 years (the occassional letter or phone call), but it didn't take the slightest effort to turn an old dead flame into a raging fireworks show after a chance face-to-face meeting.

Good luck to you both.

Dawn

[tigra 0]

Yeah, don't listen to single people. We know nothing about relationships or trust!

[ChrisL 2]

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I And if this is the only area in which you have to support her 100% in your marriage, whether its severing your ties with your ex or working out her insecurities in some other, more productive way, I'd say not only should that be your perogative, it's also your obligation

I support my wife 100%. I do not support her insecurities as well
nor do I feel that they should be supported. They have nothing whatever to do with me or my love for her.

__

My mighty steed

[white_falcon 0]

Tigra,

Thats not what she (ladybug) said or meant (yes, i can speak for her, I sleep w/ her) lol

(and if i missed any humor in your post, I apologize)
Scott

[ChrisL 2]

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Maybe you have ALWAYS been trustworthy in the past, and you believe that this is not your problem. This creates a new problem because the whole idea of marriage is "two become one."

Hi Dawn,

I appreciate your comments and understand where you are coming from.
I must stress that the idea that a marriage is where "two become one" is
only ONE idea of marriage. One that I dont subscribe to personally.

One thing I have learned through painful past experience is that I can not totally submerge myself in a relationship to that extent.
I lose my identity, my individuality, my independance, and I cant deal with it.

But I dont think that that type of relationship is healthy for anyone.

My idea of marriage, or at least the only one that works for me, is "Two who chose to walk the same path side by side, but still remain two people"

This may not be as romantic sounding as some would like, but its the only way I can go. I have my own issues as well, you see?

My life is about learning to deal with my own issues so that other dont suffer from them, and the reverse should also be true.

Call it abandonment (her), call it abuse and neglect (me)
wherever we came should not become the burden of the other
if we are truely trying to grow beyond our baggage.

__

My mighty steed

[tigra 0]

OK, a couple more random comments from this single person.

The thing about love is, before you can really allow yourself to be loved, you need to love yourself. Chris, it sounds to me like as much as you love your wife, she doesn't love herself enough to trust in it.
I doubt there is anything you can say or do or give up that will change how she feels about herself. Have you considered counselling? She needs to deal with her abandonment issues, and understand that her lack of trust and insecurities are really hurting you. Having a close friendship outside your marriage is NOT cheating, but her behaviour is causing you to hide things from her.

Also, I've held back from saying this but in this thread and another similar thread, a lot of women have posted stating that they would cut off contact with a close male friend to make their SO feel more comfortable. And someone else (a guy) pointed out how destructive female friends can be to a relationship. A classic early sign of an abusive relationship is when the victim begins cutting ties and distancing herself from friends and family. By the time the abuse becomes obvious, she's already lost her support system and her self esteem. Be careful, that's all I'm saying. Of course marriage and relationships are about compromise and putting someone else's feelings ahead of your own, but that works both ways. I guess what it comes down to is this- you should be willing to give up pretty much everything for the person you love, but the person who loves you shouldn't ask or expect you to give up what is precious to you.

OK, I'm done.......

Good luck to you Chris!

maura

[tigra 0]

I think LadyBug made her feelings perfectly clear.

but then again, since I'm on a different life level, maybe I just misunderstood.

[peregrinerose 0]

You are right, that problem is HUGE. And as was pointed out in another post, something had to make her that way. It's HARD to believe in any sense of self worth if your entire life you were taught otherwise. There's that quote from Pretty Woman, something about the bad things being so much easier to believe than the good ones.

I know that he doesn't feel like it sometimes, but my husband has made more strides in making a dent in my insecurities than a couple years of counselling did.

He sat me down, looked me square in the eye, and told me that he is him, no one else. No matter what the stereotypical guy is like, or what past people in my life were like, he is not any of them. It doesn't matter what anyone else said or did to me, it only matters what he thinks and how he treats me.

He was right. I interpretted him through the fog created by other people.

He asked me if he had ever misled or lied to me. I could honestly say no. He promised he never would, and that he needed me to believe in him. He told me that doubting his words made him sick, frustrated. That I basically call him a liar and it tore him apart that I didn't believe in him.

I still have stupid moments. But when we argue about something like this, he's quick to pull me into his arms and tell me he loves me. That's exactly what I need. Those moments of insecurity are those times I feel absolutely all alone in the world. Just him wrapping around me like that makes me realize I'm not alone.

He reminds me not to crucify him over what others have done.

He works with me, he never yells at me, never calls me names, just asks what he can do to help and lets me know how much my words to him can sting. I can't say things are perfect now, but they are a lot better, and he gets the credit for that. I admire him for his patience.

You and your wife aren't Chad and I, so I don't know how much of the above makes sense or pertains to your situation, but feel free to share it with her if appropriate. I thought about PMing this, but it's a common enough issue that probably someone else may get an idea or two from it.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ChrisL 2]

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Also, I've held back from saying this but in this thread and another similar thread, a lot of women have posted stating that they would cut off contact with a close male friend to make their SO feel more comfortable.

I saw this too and found it difficult to fathom.
I dont understand why someone would be (or should be) willing
to make a sacrifice like that to cater another persons irrational insecurities.

This accomplishes nothing more than to validate and give credence to another persons neurotic behavior.

Playing the martyr is not my way, but perhaps others think that
thats how you show your love.

Besides, being that self sacrificing is just a roundabout way to be selfish. Look at me! See what I have given up for you???
I'm wonderful!

I can think of better, less self destructive ways to show my love than by throwing away things that matter to me in some kind of silly gesture

__

My mighty steed

[peregrinerose 0]

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I support my wife 100%. I do not support her insecurities as well
nor do I feel that they should be supported. They have nothing whatever to do with me or my love for her.

You should not support her insecurities, you are right. This is a joint problem though, something negatively impacting your marriage. Although it isn't your 'fault', it is something that needs to be dealt with as a team.

Frustration or yelling is counterproductive and actually re-inforces her insecurities.

You're a literate guy or you wouldn't be writing about this here. Sit down and show her what she looks like through your eyes. Write it all down, handwritten, in pen. Tell her everything, how beautiful/sexy/funny/etc you find her. Let her know about all those bizarre quirks that you find appealing. And let her know the less than favorable qualities too, but you love her exactly as she is and wouldn't change even a single thing.

Write down there that you know sometimes she doesn't believe in herself, and that hurts you because she doesn't believe in you either, but she can get out that letter, and read it when she forgets. So she has something to fall back on when she is blinded to how you feel or when she's having a lonely day.

It would make a world of difference. It's the one thing that I wish my husband could do for me But written word isn't his thing, it's not one of his skills and I understand that.

Good luck! If you want to correspond to someone in the same shoes you are in and get some pointers, pm Chad... skydivingchad here. He's a good guy and may be able to give you some insight that I can't give. He's dealt with a lot of crap with me and has taught me a lot.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ChrisL 2]

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It's not for me to say how he should feel about me talking to my ex-boyfriends, and I prefer not to judge him on that point.

Perhaps. But neither is it for him to say who you should or should not be friends with. Thats your choice, and ONLY your choice.

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To me, it was much more important to have my fiance feel less threatened and more comfortable in our relationship than it was to keep up my already casual relationships with those two men.

What would your choice have been had either of those friendships actually been important to you?

Additionally, if your fiancee trusted you completely, then what would he have to feel threatened about?

Being required to make these kinds of sacrifices may be common, but it is not normal or healthy in my opinion.
Its definitely not an obligation.

__

My mighty steed

[turtlespeed 226]

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When faded friends fade back in . . .

It means you are starting to sober up.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ChrisL 2]

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When faded friends fade back in . . .

It means you are starting to sober up.

Its about time! I havent had a drink in 9 years

__

My mighty steed

[peregrinerose 0]

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Being required to make these kinds of sacrifices is not normal or healthy in my opinion.
Its definitely not an obligation.

I agree. There is a girl my husband had 'relations' with a couple months before we met. They had some 'net fun too, so I did tell him I was uncomfortable with continued emailing knowing the history. He stopped on his own, I didn't ask him to. When he does still see her periodically, I just joke that I'll have to pee on him to mark my territory. It doesn't bother me at all and I'd never ask him to change the situation.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ChrisL 2]

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I just joke that I'll have to pee on him to mark my territory. It doesn't bother me at all and I'd never ask him to change the situation.

Jen

Maybe if I just let her pee on my leg whenever I go out without her...

That would be far easier to cope with than this stuff

__

My mighty steed

[brierebecca 0]

As for whether I would have kept up my friendships with those men, I would have to say: doubtful. They were VERY casual acquaintances at best. I don't think my fiance would have tried to get me to stop talking to them otherwise.

I think it's really interesting that you think this kind of behavior is unhealthy. Especially a few posts ago, where I think you said that you wonder why anyone would choose to accommodate their SO's irrational insecurities. It makes me wonder why you posted in the first place, because your original post asked for opinions of women, especially those who feel that you are wrong. Yet when a few of us posted and said that maybe you should consider your wife's feelings a little more, you made it very clear that you would never consider such an opinion valid, and that it is unhealthy to feel that way.

And I never said that giving up your relationship with your ex is an obligation. It's simply an obligation to be willing to do what it takes to make your relationship work. In fact, I specifically said that you should seek another, more productive route in lieu of being willling to sever your connection with your ex.

good luck with this, it's a hard road. but I think a little more sesitivity to your wife's feelings (maybe not simply dismissing them as irrational and invalid, because really, not many feelings fall under that category) may help you in the long run.

mua!

Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[Ladybug 0]

Tigra,

my post was not directed at you personally, or at any one single person - personally. (I'm only guessing that you're single since it seemed to get your hackles up). It was, however, about single people in general. For many, the lifestyle and way of thinking is different from that of married couples.

And that's not even to say there is anything wrong with it - it's just a matter of fact.

[tigra 0]

I read you loud and clear. You are dismissing an entire group of people, essentially saying our opinions on trust and relationships are of less value simply because we aren't married.

Pretty arrogant, if you ask me. But then why would you? My opinion is worthless.

[Ladybug 0]

Tigra;

Sorry you seem to be so offended.

You say, "You are dismissing an entire group of people, essentially saying our opinions on trust and relationships are of less value simply because we aren't married."

Go back and read. I never said don't listen to A L L single people.

I did say, don't listen to T H E single people who are shocked that another person might have a say in what you do...

I also never said that the opinions of the E N T I R E group of single people on trust and relationships are of less value.

What I did say was that for M A N Y, the lifestyle and way of thinking is different.

I also don't think that your opinion is worthless, but your reading comprehension skills certainly are!

[Ladybug 0]

And to those of you getting excited about the possibility of a cat fight....

Calm down. This LADY is leaving the room.

[tigra 0]

Actually, I'm more amused than offended. My reading comprehension isn't an issue here. You are coming across loud and clear with every word you type.

[turtlespeed 226]

I'm just amazed that anyone would think it "OK" to be controlling that way.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ChrisL 2]

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As for whether I would have kept up my friendships with those men, I would have to say: doubtful. They were VERY casual acquaintances at best. I don't think my fiance would have tried to get me to stop talking to them otherwise.

I know. Thats why I asked how you would have dealt with it if they were not casual, but rather, were actually important friendships to you.

Would you still be so willing to give them up so that your fiancee wouldnt feel threatened by them?

Maybe you would, but you would resent him like hell for forcing you to make that choice, and that couldnt possibly be good for your marriage either.

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It makes me wonder why you posted in the first place, because your original post asked for opinions of women, especially those who feel that you are wrong. Yet when a few of us posted and said that maybe you should consider your wife's feelings a little more, you made it very clear that you would never consider such an opinion valid, and that it is unhealthy to feel that way.

I dont think I specifically asked for people that thought I was wrong to reply. I just asked if people thought I was wrong.

My dilemma was not whether or not I should give up my friendships for my wife, but rather it was to find out how wrong I was being in not telling my wife that I was in contact with this person.

I have no dilemma about the former. I feel very strongly that my wife should trust me and that I should be able to have any friend I want, regardless of their gender.

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good luck with this, it's a hard road. but I think a little more sesitivity to your wife's feelings (maybe not simply dismissing them as irrational and invalid, because really, not many feelings fall under that category) may help you in the long run.

Thank you for the good wishes. I dont think that refusing to cave in to her insecurity means that I'm insensitive to her feelings. The fact is that her lack of trust is irrational. I am not the cause of it, but I am the victim of it.

After a lot of thinking, and reading of peoples thoughts in this thread, I have decided that not telling her this to avoid the inevitable shitstorm IS wrong.

It would be catering to those same insecurities just as surely as giving up my friends would be, because I would be compromising my own values of honesty and trust because she has trust issues.

If I keep this a secret, then I also validate her mistrust. Those of you that pointed this fact out were absolutely right.

I am going to tell her about it and hope for the best.

I'm NOT going to give up a single friend to make her feel less threatened. She needs to learn how to trust.
When she CAN, we will both be a lot happier.

Thank you to all of you that posted your thoughts.
That goes to everyone, not just people that agreed with me
Although I do like those folks more

__

My mighty steed