Consistently Fast opening modern canopies- Your list

[LongWayToFall 0]

The canopy I just now is a F111 PD210, and I love it. The openings are rather fast, I would say about 400-500ft or so, and I really enjoy it actually. When I was on rental gear, There was nothing I hated more than a 1000ft opening. So, what canopies out there open fast like what I am used to? I have jumped a Saber2 210, and its openings were on the brisker side as well, but lots of people tell me that they have ones that are slow openers. I am only interested in modern 9 cell ZP canopies, and ones that are consistent as well. Thanks everyone!

[jacketsdb23 49]

I thought the mamba was fast. but everything is fast compared to the safire and crossfire that I have jumped. The sabres that I have jumped have been fast too. But the Mamba takes the cake. YMMV

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[erdnarob 1]

I had a Sabre 2 with a wing loading of 1.5 and on an average of 10 jumps, the vertical distance lost at opening was 340 ft. I would say 400-500 ft is an ideal situation (fast enough and confortable). My Katana opens softly on 600 ft which is still OK and provides me with always the same openings (thanks to the magnet riser cover). I had tuck tab riser covers with my Sabre 2. Magnets riser cover seem to make a big difference.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[LongWayToFall 0]

A friend of mine jumps a safire 2 at just a slightly higher wing loading than mine, and it is fun to track a little bit longer than him, and still be under a canopy while he is passing me with his slider still up. Mamba huh? I'll check it out

Edit to add, seems like the mamba is quite an advanced canopy!! Good to know for the future, but for the time being I am only looking for a lightly elliptical or square.

[jacketsdb23 49]

ha! Glad to see you checked it out and aren't interested in the Mamba - maybe another couple hundred and you'll be set to try it out.

I know alot of people don't like the slow openings of the safire but personally I LOVED it. I think my body appreciated it over the course of the couple hundred jumps. It certainly made the choice between the crossfire and katana easier for me. Personally, the openings are a huge factor when buying a new canopy. After the safire - I couldn't get used to the sabre openings. Its definately a personal choice!

Check out the Pilot!

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[JohnRich 4]

A fast opening is not determined by the type of canopy,
but rather, by the type of packing.

[AndyMan 7]

I'd be careful what you're asking for here.

I understand that you're comfortable with the briskness of a fast opening because that's largely what you've experienced. Please understand that the industry has moved away from fast opening canopies for a reason.

First, a bit of history. When many of the fast opening canopies were designed, skydivers had very different standards for pull altitudes. Going back to when the Saber 1 was introduced, it was not uncommon to see people pulling below 2000 feet. Pulling low was so popular that the USPA had to pass a BSR effectively banning the practice. However, it wasn't until the broad adoption of AAD's that pull altitudes started to rise. Anyways, given that people were pulling low, (and sometimes having "low pull contests", canopy manufacturers thought it wise to make a canopy that opens quickly.

We're thankful that the culture of low-pulling has largely been relegated to the past. AAD's has made low-pulling even more dangerous, and the industry has begun to rally around 'Canopy Piloting', which celebrates canopy flight and encourages a higher pull.

That bit of history aside - in addition to a cultural change around pull altitudes, there's also been some very serious accidents, and indeed fatalities that were caused by hard opening parachutes. In some cases the canopies have opened so hard as to break femurs and necks. In other cases it's the harness that' have failed, with equally fatal results.

The danger of hard opening canopies is clear. The industry has adopted wisely by changing their canopy designs to open in more acceptable ways.

You'd be wise to purchase a canopy that's known for consistent, stable openings, and comfort your fear by opening just a touch higher.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[wmw999 2,550]

Pack opening altitude when the Sabre 1 was introduced was still 2000'. Yes, the AAD did largely (but not entirely) do away with low pull contests. Some of those folks also do BASE, which seems to touch some of the same ground-rush genes.

But if one's sense of good-opening timing is tuned to a faster-opening canopy, I don't see any reason to change that. And the definition of low pulling isn't below 3500'. A 1000' snivel scares the crap out of me -- I really can't tell when it's going to open.

But John Rich is also right -- you can pack just about any canopy to open consistently in a shorter altitude. I have a Diablo (noted for snivels from what I'm told) that I pack for fast openings, and I'm quite happy with it. Likewise a Pilot.

Edit to add: pay attention to your body. I started jumping in 1975, and the vast majority of my jumps are on faster-opening canopies. It works for me. But if openings hurt, or you're waking up stiff on Monday morning (no, not that kind of stiff ), then it's not right.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 273]

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I think my body appreciated it over the course of the couple hundred jumps

Your body will appreciate it even more 10-20 years from now. I wish my first 700 jumps had been on a modern canopy that opens in 750 ft instead of on F111 canopies that opened in 400 feet; perhaps I wouldn't have this irritating tingling and pain down my left arm if mains like Spectres and Safires had been available back in 1990.

[jacketsdb23 49]

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A fast opening is not determined by the type of canopy,
but rather, by the type of packing.

I partially disagree with you. Packing can and does affect how your canopy opens. However, packed Identically - a crossfire will open signficantly better (read slower, better is an opinion) than a Katana.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Consistency is mainly what I am looking for, and then I can start to modify the pack job from there. For instance, I have been told that the spectre can tolerate just about any pack job and it still opens really slow. Where as, my pd 9 cell, will never be a slow opener because I have to roll the nose a bunch, the tail, make sure the slider is pulled forward, etc and it still is a fast opening. I am really comfortable with it though, I am not scared of a slammer. I think I would enjoy a saber, however the fact that it does not open consistently worries me, I would have to get a pocket slider to prevent the occasional slammer and now I am back to slow openings.

The reason I am looking for a faster opening canopy, is because it is fun to track a little longer on a jump, and be under a stable canopy doing your control check while others are still slider up. Right now with my pd, if the slider isn't down in maybe 3 seconds, I'm going to get rid of it, because I know just how it should be opening, and it is consistent. On some of my old rental gear, I would be spending time looking at my altimeter, and then back up at the canopy, back and forth, waiting for my cutaway altitude. This is no fun! I think as long as you are not getting hurt, a fast opening is safer and gives you more time to deal with stuff.
I promise I won't be doing any low pull contests!

[LongWayToFall 0]

The pilot sounds like a good canopy, however most people are saying the openings are pretty snively, and the flares are a little on the weaker side. Maybe buy one and put a mesh slider on it??

Just kidding!

[wmw999 2,550]

Oh heck, just keep cutting a bigger and bigger hole in the slider

(note: this is what people used to do, but is no longer recommended)

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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A fast opening is not determined by the type of canopy,
but rather, by the type of packing.

I can roll the nose and tail on my Monarch 135 all I want and it won't open as softly as my Samurai 105 does when I just leave the nose hanging symetrically with just a couple of rolls in the tail to hold everything together when I set it on the ground.

I can roll the nose and the tail on my Dagger 244 with a mesh slider as much as I want. While not as hard as if I just left the nose exposed it opens quicker than the monarch.

The canopy design (including slider configuration+size and brake setting) sets a lower limit on opening time which you can't work around without changes (like a bigger or lipped slider)

[AndyMan 7]

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Consistency is mainly what I am looking for, and then I can start to modify the pack job from there. For instance, I have been told that the spectre can tolerate just about any pack job and it still opens really slow.

Your information is mostly correct, but there's a key point that invalidates it. For years the Spectre did in fact have a reputation for opening slowly. However, one of the fatalities I mentioned, and one of the broken femurs from hard openings was caused by a Spectre. Think about breaking a femur from a hard opening - it must have been an amazing amount of force exerted by the canopy.

Also, I'd caution against a Saber 1. I know more than a handful number of people (including myself) that have neck injuries from hard openings under a Saber. I know of one person who had to quit the sport after suffering major neck damage. He will be in pain for a very long time because of it.

There are some canopies coming out that reportedly open quickly, but without significant g-forces. I think the new PD pulse supposedly opens this way. This may be the canopy that you're looking for.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 3,080]

The new PD Pulse has been designed to open faster than other more recent PD canopies.

[billvon 3,080]

>There are some canopies coming out that reportedly open quickly,
>but without significant g-forces.

There's a basic problem with physics there! You can't have a parachute decelerate you quickly without significant G-forces. You can say that a parachute limits them reliably to below (say) 2 G's, but you can't avoid the G forces. (For example, a parachute that slows you at no more than 2G's cannot open in less than about 500 feet.)

[AndyMan 7]

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here's a basic problem with physics there! You can't have a parachute decelerate you quickly without significant G-forces. You can say that a parachute limits them reliably to below (say) 2 G's, but you can't avoid the G forces.

I don't think it's a physics problem as much as a canopy design one. You can satisfy the physical requirement by having a moderate g-force over a longer period of time. I don't know to what degree it's possible to design a canopy like that.

My impression of the harder opening canopies is that they have a very high g-force of very short duration.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[wildfan75 1]

I think I may be in the same boat as you. Those "beautiful openings" everyone talks about, to me they are way too slow. When people complain about a way too fast of an opening canopy, it usually tweeks my ear and I listen intently about that canopy.

The majority of my jumps have been on Silhouettes. I really liked the openings. I started to get up to a wing loading on the Silhouette 150 that I wasn't getting a very good flare out of it (and it was a canopy with less than 100 jumps so it wasn't a ragged out POS). I demo'd a few things, including the (insert Heavenly music here) Sabre2. I hated the Sabre2's openings. I just don't feel the need to have time to pull, check my air space, check the spot, take off my booties and then watch my slider come all the way down. Ok, I may be exturating slightly, but you get my point. Same thing with the Spectre and Saphire.

I then started thing about finding a Sabre1. I figured if everyone thinks that the Sabre2's openings are sweet, then maybe the Sabre1's openings aren't as bad as everyone says they are.

By an act of God, a Sabre1 150 in my neon pink and royal blue with about 50 jumps on it showed up at my dz one day. Some jumper had bought a rig to piece sell it out. I took the precautionary measures of doing all the tricks to slow down openings just in case and started jumping it. My conclusion...I wouldn't be surprised if the jumper who had that canopy before only put those few jumps on it because he got smacked one too many times. That particular Sabre1 150 was "one of those" Sabre1's.

I had my rigger put a pocket on the slider. With the pocket I don't need to do any more "slow 'er down" techniques while packing. If I do, it gets to snively for me. They are great openings now!!

I'm eager to try the Pulse, but curious on how the Optimum fabric will hold up over time.

Maybe try a Lightning. I hear they have fast openings

[skydiverek 63]

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The new PD Pulse has been designed to open faster than other more recent PD canopies.

Video of Pulse openings here:

http://www.performancedesigns.com/pdzone/videos_pulse.asp

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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>There are some canopies coming out that reportedly open quickly,
>but without significant g-forces.

There's a basic problem with physics there! You can't have a parachute decelerate you quickly without significant G-forces. You can say that a parachute limits them reliably to below (say) 2 G's, but you can't avoid the G forces. (For example, a parachute that slows you at no more than 2G's cannot open in less than about 500 feet.)

You can't limit average G-forces but you can do wonders on the peaks.

Brian Germain said that parachutes should open quickly but comfortably and built the Samurai to do so; I'd expect the Lotus to be similar.

I've jumped parachutes where there was too much up front followed by a reasonable average, slow snivel followed by an increase, and slow uniform long snivels. I'd consider all three cases to be bad designs for canopies engineered this century.

[LongWayToFall 0]

If you look at a graph of the g forces over opening, they aren't constant though. When the slider is on its way down the lines is the highest g forces, while the "snivel" when the slider is up is pretty mild. I've had openings where it was super smooth then all of a sudden CRACK the slider is down. I would think the ideal opening would be one where the G forces are similar throughout the whole opening.
The openings on that pulse look nice! Just a wee bit slower than my PD 9cell, but certainly acceptable. The flares however, look the same as my canopy as well, and that is no compliment!! I wonder why they would compare them to the katana, which obviously has a much greater flaring power? It would seem the katana is better at transitioning it's energy into forward movement, where the pulse is putting the energy into the recovery arc and swinging the jumper forward. Both are nice landings, but I'd rather have a mini swoop of sorts.

[monkycndo 0]

Any canopy can be a slammer or sniveller. Certain canopy makes are more likely to be more one or the other. I have over 650 jumps between a Sabre170@1.17wl and Sabre 150@1.35wl. Neither canopy ever spanked me. The openings were "positive", but I wouldn't ever call them brisk. I liked that I quickly knew if it was good or not. I am now jumping a Nitro&Nitron 150. They are fun to fly, but waiting for the slider to come down is taking some getting used to. They feel like a mal that is just waiting to clear. Packing it in different ways to speed it up just a bit.

Wendy, how big of a hole do I cut in the slider?

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
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[LongWayToFall 0]

Yeah I'm trying to shy away from the saber because of the inconsistent openings, but if they still open in a timely fashion with a pocket slider I might consider one.

[JohnDeere 0]

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Both are nice landings, but I'd rather have a mini swoop of sorts.

If you look in the background in that video you can see streemers that are moving pretty good. I bet that thing has a good flare with slower winds.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!