buff 0 #1 February 17, 2009 I was looking at gear and this pic caught my eye. Something does not look right here http://www.dropzone.com/classifieds/images/ad_classifieds/4/97864-largest_Javlin_J1_backview%25255B1%25255D.jpgIt's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude. If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #2 February 17, 2009 That's pretty typical of large handle reserve ripcords contained between the 2 layers of the Main Lift Web. It's worse on shorter harnesses like that one.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #3 February 17, 2009 If you are looking at the risers, they are the PdF Integrity risers. They do look strange the first time.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #4 February 17, 2009 Edit: Monky got there first 1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #5 February 17, 2009 QuoteIf you are looking at the risers, they are the PdF Integrity risers. They do look strange the first time. You beat me too making my second edit. Integrity risers were built by many manufacturers for many years so those actually may be stock. I don't know the add it came from and the picture is pretty small to try and figure it out.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buff 0 #6 February 17, 2009 The risers are what I was looking at. How do you gear check those? It looks like the 3-rings are to the inside.It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude. If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #7 February 17, 2009 I just flip em and have a visual check.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #8 February 17, 2009 Quote The risers are what I was looking at. How do you gear check those? It looks like the 3-rings are to the inside. The best way to check them is by pulling the cut away handle, taking off the links and installing a front 3 ring type of risers. A search will show you that there were some issues with the risers not cutting away because the rings were pinched between the riser and container. The first time I did a gear check, I asked the same question you did. AFAIK, the guy still has them on his rig.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #9 February 17, 2009 The entire rig is up-side down. Useless unless you freefly. Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisClark 0 #10 February 17, 2009 Well folks......wrong answer! Reverse risers should never be used on a Javelin. This was a factor in an Australian fatality, here is a quote from one of the investigators:The final link in the chain leading to this fatality was the use of reverse risers on a rig not intended for them. The deceased's rig was a Javelin, never intended for reverse risers. The large harness ring is lower so the rings are held against the webbing and do not release as readily as on a PDF harness or Talon etc where the the harness ring is situated higher up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #11 February 17, 2009 Well, first of all make sure those are not yours. Than you can turn it out and see.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #12 February 17, 2009 Thanks for the info Chris, I was unaware reverse risers could not be used on some rigs.1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #13 February 18, 2009 Quote The best way to check them is by pulling the cut away handle, taking off the links and installing a front 3 ring type of risers. A search will show you that there were some issues with the risers not cutting away because the rings were pinched between the riser and container. The first time I did a gear check, I asked the same question you did. AFAIK, the guy still has them on his rig. There's nothing inherently wrong with reverse risers. The problem you are most likely referring to (linked elsewhere in this thread) was due to someone using reverse risers on a rig that was not designed for them. Rigs that are designed to be used with integrity risers would place the rings more up on top of the shoulder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #14 February 18, 2009 I was reading some Bill Booth stuff about the reversed risers, he said you lose the pulley effect of having the cloth loop go around the small ring. The reversed risers will be much harder to cutaway because of the extra force. The cutaway cable is also more likely to get sucked through the Amp fitting, releasing the riser, or kinking the cable to lock it in place. I had a set of them until my first hard opening damaged them."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #15 February 18, 2009 QuoteRigs that are designed to be used with integrity risers would place the rings more up on top of the shoulder. I don't think integrity risers should be used on ANY rig that you might actually NEED to cutaway with. Even if the rings are placed higher on the wearer's shoulders, there are situations like a bag lock or a two out where the rings can (most likely will) be pressed against the shoulder or reserve risers, not allowing them to flip through and release. Not to mention the issues raised in the previous post.VSE on Facebook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LavaLady 0 #16 February 18, 2009 The APF Service Bulletin regarding Reverse Risers. Mandatory in Australia. See attachment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
travelingmack 0 #17 February 19, 2009 QuoteI just flip em and have a visual check. Hey, have you notice the little crack on one of your 3-rings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #18 February 19, 2009 QuoteQuoteRigs that are designed to be used with integrity risers would place the rings more up on top of the shoulder. I don't think integrity risers should be used on ANY rig that you might actually NEED to cutaway with. Even if the rings are placed higher on the wearer's shoulders, there are situations like a bag lock or a two out where the rings can (most likely will) be pressed against the shoulder or reserve risers, not allowing them to flip through and release. Not to mention the issues raised in the previous post. Good points. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 February 19, 2009 QuoteThere's nothing inherently wrong with reverse risers. Can you come up with on thing that is "inherently" right with them? Their design goes against a basic principle of rigging and gear design. If it will not improve function or safety it is a bad idea. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #20 February 19, 2009 QuoteQuoteThere's nothing inherently wrong with reverse risers. Can you come up with on thing that is "inherently" right with them? Their design goes against a basic principle of rigging and gear design. If it will not improve function or safety it is a bad idea. Sparky your logic is flawed. what's inherently right with regular 3rings ? If A leads to B, does B lead to A ? nope, only NOT B leads to NOT A. It's called a contrapositive. Anyways. the reverse, or also known as Integrity risers have some positive qualities over "regular" a) they do not have a grommet in the middle, thus theoretically being structurally stronger. Yes, we all know that the difference does not matter, because at a small percentage of the failure point your body will fail first. b) they allow an easer material inspection while geared up, while at the same time protect the 3 ring c) when packing, there's no wear on the 3 rings and the white loop (which so many people don't pay close attention to, like they should since the failure of the white loop low to the ground will really fuck you up:). In my book that's both an improvement of function(strength) AND safety(less wear/more snag proof) with all those things taken to a theoretical scientist I would say the reasons for Integrity risers are spot on. Furthermore, if you notice that no-good Brit, tea-sipping chap Andy Copland posted a picture of his BASE rig with integrity risers - you may not realize this, but they are quite popular with BASE rigs, mostly for reason C, as packing is a lot of times done in on less than ideal surfaces, and when stowing the lines in the tailpocket of the freepacked canopy one drags the container to the packjob, not the dbag to the container. Yet another point, quite well reinforced by Kelly, is that if one does not have to worry about cutaways as much as skydivers - the Integrity risers a just fine. Do I think they are ok for skydiving - yes, I can think of a few times where they may work fine. Will I advocate them or put them on peoples skydiving rigs without their knowledge ? Hell no. But I will not hesitate for one second to use them on BASE gear, as I have on 1 of my rigs. whatddya say ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #21 February 19, 2009 QuoteQuoteThere's nothing inherently wrong with reverse risers. Can you come up with on thing that is "inherently" right with them? Their design goes against a basic principle of rigging and gear design. If it will not improve function or safety it is a bad idea. This post would have been a miss even without the two genuinely informative ones that preceded it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #22 February 19, 2009 QuoteFurthermore, if you notice that no-good Brit, tea-sipping chap Andy Copland posted a picture of his BASE rig with integrity risers - you may not realize this, but they are quite popular with BASE rigs, mostly for reason C, as packing is a lot of times done in on less than ideal surfaces, and when stowing the lines in the tailpocket of the freepacked canopy one drags the container to the packjob, not the dbag to the container. Yet another point, quite well reinforced by Kelly, is that if one does not have to worry about cutaways as much as skydivers - the Integrity risers a just fine. Pardon me? Who gives a damn about integrity risers on a BASE rig? You just do not cut your BASE canopy away in an in-flight emergency.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #23 February 19, 2009 QuoteQuoteFurthermore, if you notice that no-good Brit, tea-sipping chap Andy Copland posted a picture of his BASE rig with integrity risers - you may not realize this, but they are quite popular with BASE rigs, mostly for reason C, as packing is a lot of times done in on less than ideal surfaces, and when stowing the lines in the tailpocket of the freepacked canopy one drags the container to the packjob, not the dbag to the container. Yet another point, quite well reinforced by Kelly, is that if one does not have to worry about cutaways as much as skydivers - the Integrity risers a just fine. Pardon me? Who gives a damn about integrity risers on a BASE rig? You just do not cut your BASE canopy away in an in-flight emergency.... As you have taken my statement out of context, you are (as usual) absolutely correct. However, the question posted by Sparky was "Can you come up with on thing that is "inherently" right with them?" And have shown the advantages. Why do you think all them years that people had reverse risers on their skydiving gear and thought it was a good idea ? Oce more time - It's a great concept, but does not seem to work well in skydiving environment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #24 February 19, 2009 QuoteThe APF Service Bulletin regarding Reverse Risers. Mandatory in Australia. See attachment. While I agree with the intent of the bulletin, the example listed as argument for compliance is flawed. "BACKGROUND: A recent fatality has highlighted the fact that some jumpers are using reverse risers on equipment that was not designed to use them. When improperly mated to these rigs the risers will not release in a pilot chute in tow / face to earth attitude resulting in an extremely hazardous reserve deployment situation and likely entanglement." Can any of you guess as to why this is "flawed"?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #25 February 19, 2009 Quote Oce more time - It's a great concept, but does not seem to work well in skydiving environment. Sure! If you tune a working release system into a non-function than you call it a great idea... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
