eddietude 0 #1 February 1, 2009 Hi all, I've got a couple of questions. Been jumping off an on for well over a decade, and my recent reserve re-pack we discovered my Cypress is almost at it's 12 year mark. So, I need to get a new AAD, and wanted to get some opinions on the various options. Here's the thing. I bought my Cypress before they announced that they all only had a 12 year life span. Frankly, that sneaky business practice really ticked me off, and I do NOT want to give Cypress my business again because of it if I can help it. So, would anyone like to post their opinions facts/info about all of the available AAD options? Thanks. Eddie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #2 February 1, 2009 There are hundreds and hundreds of AAD threads in the history. I firmly believe that all the major AAD's on the market will operate correctly or more technically within their parameters. I bought a Vigil II. After 12 years, unlike your cypres I can still jump my vigil II. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #3 February 1, 2009 Quote Hi all, I've got a couple of questions. Been jumping off an on for well over a decade, and my recent reserve re-pack we discovered my Cypress is almost at it's 12 year mark. So, I need to get a new AAD, and wanted to get some opinions on the various options. Here's the thing. I bought my Cypress before they announced that they all only had a 12 year life span. Frankly, that sneaky business practice really ticked me off, and I do NOT want to give Cypress my business again because of it if I can help it. So, would anyone like to post their opinions facts/info about all of the available AAD options? Thanks. Eddie http://www.chutingstar.com/archives/00000128.html My opinion...for whatever the heck that's worth. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #4 February 1, 2009 Quote Here's the thing. I bought my Cypress before they announced that they all only had a 12 year life span. Frankly, that sneaky business practice really ticked me off, and I do NOT want to give Cypress my business again because of it if I can help it. when did they not have a stated life span ? I was not around back then, it'd be a nice fact to know. I do believe they initially stated 10 years and then extended to 12. Anyone ? As far as what I would pick ? Another Cypres2. Just makes me feel more comfortable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bliston 0 #5 February 1, 2009 I (and some of my teammates) switched to Argus units and have been really happy with them. Batteries are easy to find and cheap to replace, waterproof, they pack up very nice in the reserve tray, user friendly interface.... I have zero complaints. BenMass Defiance 4-wayFS website sticks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #6 February 1, 2009 Confortable for what ? Just like you would prefer your old pair of slippers !!!???? Come on, we are dealing here with high tech technology. For many reasons alredy explained in this forum I consider the Vigil II as being the most advanced AAD available right now. Moreover this device offers you features that his main competitor doesn't offer like 3 modes you can choose from and do the setting, data downloading capability, and last but not least non scheduled costly maintenance. You have a maintenance when you decide to do it. And as Hackish said after 12 years if it still does its 3 explicit self testings, it's still good.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 February 1, 2009 But at 20 the Vigil2 is dead also, don't forget to mention that. Mike did a really good break down on his website of the pros of each unit. There is no right or wrong answer on this topic. My Cypres is approaching its 10 year mark so I'm starting to think of its replacement and at this moment I'm still not decided. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #8 February 1, 2009 chuttingstar give a nice overview of the 3 major manufactorers, so see his post for that. I prefer the Argus from Aviacom, for several reasons among which: * They have a maintenance program, but it economical priced and have several locations. IMHO "the best of both worlds" * They do not only rely on air pressure sensors to make their caculations, there is an extra sensor pack which corrects pressure readings. * They are the most open company of the 3. For an example see their one of their test reports here: http://www.argus-aad.com/images/PDF/aaddesignandtestreporta.pdf *Their service has been outstanding. I had one of the early units, which I had a minor problem with (nothing serious), called them, Karel Goorts (the owner) called me back personally within 20 minutes, asked if it would be ok for them to send me a brand new unit. This was ok for me.. :) (had a new unit 2 days later) I must add I got the Argus for a discount, as an instructor through my DZ. However I jump Argus because I believe and experienced it to be an excellent (maybe the best) product and strongly recommend it.The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #9 February 1, 2009 QuoteConfortable for what ? Just like you would prefer your old pair of slippers !!!???? yes. Because I know they will work and have proven themselves over time. such choices are personal. The OP asked for opinion and reason for the choice. I gave him one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #10 February 1, 2009 QuoteYou have a maintenance when you decide to do it. Which, for a vast majority of jumpers, will be NEVER (money, time, sending hassle, etc). You know what I am talking about - when you don't have to do something, you usually don't do it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,468 #11 February 1, 2009 Hi Phree, QuoteBut at 20 the Vigil2 is dead also Not true. They say something about some future maintenance/whatever when they get to the 20-yr point. But they are a long way from that 20-yr point. Both the Vigil 1 & 2 are NOT DEAD at 20 yrs. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #12 February 1, 2009 I have two Cypreses (Cyprii?). One of them, an Original Cypres, is rapidly approaching it's 12 year end of life, and will soon turn into a paper-weight, even though it self tests OK every time I turn it on, and shows no sign of premature wear or malfunction. My second Cypres, the updated Cypres 2 is currently in the hands of SSK in Ohio undergoing its 4 year service, even though I have absolutely no reason to believe there's anything wrong with it. This service is costly, and is required regardless of wear or usage patterns. I'm annoyed with the state of both of my Cypreses. One I will soon throw in the trashcan for absolutely no good reason. The other is currently undergoing costly maintenance for equally poor reasons. When I replace my next ADD, I will not be buying another Cypres. The Vigil seems to be more popular in my neck of the woods than the Argus. I consider them all trust-worthy. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #13 February 1, 2009 QuoteHi Phree, QuoteBut at 20 the Vigil2 is dead also Not true. They say something about some future maintenance/whatever when they get to the 20-yr point. But they are a long way from that 20-yr point. Both the Vigil 1 & 2 are NOT DEAD at 20 yrs. JerryBaumchen Excerpts rom the Vigil II manual: The Vigil® is designed for a life expectancy of 20 years from the date of manufacture. The above expectancy is based on the fact that the cutter, the Pulses Plus element and the electronic components have been designed for a functional lifetime of 20 years. and the high peak current necessary for the cutter to activate and cut the loop instantaneously in less than 2 milliseconds. This element has an operational lifetime of 20 years and must in principle never be replaced (see page 29). and 5.5. Cutter Unit - NATO Stock Number (NSN) 1377-13-118-8843 Patented and designed especially for the Vigil® with a life expectancy of 20 years. and Life time: 20 years life expectancy MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,468 #14 February 2, 2009 Hi Mike, QuoteLife time: 20 years life expectancy I stand by my statement. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eddietude 0 #15 February 2, 2009 Quotewhen did they not have a stated life span ? I was not around back then, it'd be a nice fact to know. I do believe they initially stated 10 years and then extended to 12. When the Cypress FIRST came out, there was no mention whatsoever of a "life span" of the unit. In fact, it wasn't until several years had passed, and thousands upon thousands of units sold that suddenly, the manufacturer decided that the unit had a life span. It was a sneaky trick, and screwed a LOT of buyers of the original cypress. As a result, they will NOT get my business EVER again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #16 February 2, 2009 QuoteHi Mike, QuoteLife time: 20 years life expectancy I stand by my statement. JerryBaumchen Hey Jerry, I believe the life expectancy is just Vigil's wording for lifetime...they also have this, as I posted in that same selection from the manual: a functional lifetime of 20 years. Anyway, I'll ask Candace at the PIA if the company has a more clear stance on what happens at 20 years from DOM. See ya, MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keithbar 1 #17 February 2, 2009 i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #18 February 2, 2009 >a functional lifetime of 20 years. Right. And the question becomes - if you are a rigger, and you repack a reserve with an AAD that has exceeded the manufacturer's recommended lifespan, what is your liability? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #19 February 2, 2009 Personally, I'd go with the Cypres2 because I jump from pressurizable aircraft often enough that the Vigil 2 misfire issue is a problem for me. Now, once the Vigil 3 comes out, I might revisit that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #20 February 2, 2009 Did the vigil 2 have plane-under-pressure misfires too? The ones at WT06 were vigil 1's I thought? Anyway the argus responded the same as a cypres 2 on that jump, ie, shut itself down for that one jump. So an argus might also work for you. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #21 February 2, 2009 I'm getting asked this question more frequently now and I think the explanation at ChutingStar's web site is nicely done, so I'll be referring people to it too. I've been annoyed by the costs of the 4-yr maintenance and proprietary battery changes on Cypres units and even more frustrated by the length of time the servicing has taken. The 12-yr built-in obsolescence makes no sense to me (is there a good reason why Airtec can't just recertify the old units after thorough testing and inspection?). Anyway, I bought an Argus recently and plan to in the future. What really surprised me about the Argus was the damned aluminum case that it came in :-p Sheesh! I mean, is that really necessary?? It seems to me that it is probably adding about $25 to the bottom line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #22 February 2, 2009 They don't come with the case thing anymore. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #23 February 2, 2009 Quote They don't come with the case thing anymore. That's good news! Did they drop the price when they dropped the cases? I hope so! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #24 February 2, 2009 >Did the vigil 2 have plane-under-pressure misfires too? Yes, in both the Perris jet and the Thailand C130 cases. Jo Smolders confirmed that the Vigil 2 is likely to fire under those conditions, and hinted that the Vigil 3 would overcome those problems. Interestingly, Vigil seems to see the misfirings in the aircraft as evidence that their AAD works better than other AAD's. From a press release of theirs: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=69085; The "valid" firings while sitting on the ground without any pressurization are also a bit worrying. I sometimes get in vehicles when jumping during the day (getting a ride back from a bad spot etc) and I would not want an AAD that might misfire under those conditions. >So an argus might also work for you. Yes. I like what I have seen so far. I'll probably give it another few years, and if its track record remains fairly good I might go that route. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eddietude 0 #25 February 5, 2009 Quoteis there a good reason why Airtec can't just recertify the old units after thorough testing and inspection?). Yeah, they want to sell you a brand new unit for $1500 bucks! As for the misfire issue, I was at Perris this week, and was told the Cypress 2 had ALSO fired in that jet. In fact, the guy in the shop stated he would NOT turn on ANY AAD if he was jumping the jet. Frankly, spending $65 for a jump ticket to jump out of a jet seems stupid to me, so i probably won't be doing it... thus, no problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
