Reasonable price?

[Teigen 0]

Im just about to purchase my own rig, and i came across a used javelin from 99 with a Silhouette 170 in it, also manufactured in 99. both have only 100 jumps and the rig looks almost brand new.

There is no cypres in it.
The guy wants $2875 for it, is this a reasonable price for a rig that has no cypres? Just asking because i might buy it really soon just to make sure i get it, all tough its been for sale for quite some time.

Attached is a photo of the rig!

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Teigen,

I do not believe that the photo is of a Jav built in 1999, unless the rig has been updated.

They only started doing the tucking in of the upper reserve flap a few years ago.

I would suggest some caution on this purchase.

Just my thoughts,

JerryBaumchen

[likestojump 3]

what is the reserve in it, and is it the same vintage as the container/canopy ?

[PhreeZone 20]

Jerry, my '99 Javelin has the tucked in reserve flap. I think that was introduced in '97.

That photo looks to be a '98-'01 Javelin at first glance since in '01 they started pushing the Odyssey really hard and changed up the tuck tab shape a bit to make them longer and wider.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Teigen 0]

Reserve is a PD-143-R

The rig is sold through SkyDesign which is the leading within skydiving gear in Norway, nice experienced owners. I went to the shop to try the rig on and they were very helpful, so i doubt there is anything fishy with this rig

[CazmoDee 3]

Just wondering what your exit weight is. You don't have any relevant info in your profile. Will a PD143 be a large enough reserve for you to be comfortable?

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Phree,

I tells ya, the older ya get, the faster time goes by.

My apologies to the OP,

JerryBaumchen

[likestojump 3]

I believe the gear is more expensive in Europe due to the fact that it gets brought in from overseas and gets duties tacked on to it. (as all the gear you are listing is US Made)

In the US market I would call your deal reasonable, but not a steal. In other words it's well below retail and the gear is top brand and good condition.

[drdive 0]

Just FYI, I picked up my gear, DOM 2002, bought in early 2004, Jav, Pilot 188 plus PD reserve, with 40 jumps, no Cypress for $2500. It was a good maybe great deal. For that vintage rig, I would offer 2K, and maybe go a little higher. Just my 2 cents.

Ed

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[DJL 235]

You don't want this unless you can get a bigger reserve put into it.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[likestojump 3]

I missed where the Teigen indicated his weight - can you point that out to me please ?

But more than anything else you never answered his question.

[DJL 235]

Quote

I missed where the Teigen indicated his weight - can you point that out to me please ?

But more than anything else you never answered his question.

Who cares about his weight or the price. A student has no business on a 143 Reserve regardless of wingloading.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[humanflite 0]

Quote

Quote

I missed where the Teigen indicated his weight - can you point that out to me please ?

But more than anything else you never answered his question.

Who cares about his weight or the price. A student has no business on a 143 Reserve regardless of wingloading.

Exactly.

[CazmoDee 3]

Bingo.....

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[Teigen 0]

FYI im 143lbs (65kg) and i could have flown a 150 main, but i chose to go with a 170.. Would a 143 reserve mean i would be instantly fucked if i needed it? that's what it sounds like the way you write.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

I missed where the Teigen indicated his weight - can you point that out to me please ?

But more than anything else you never answered his question.

Who cares about his weight or the price. A student has no business on a 143 Reserve regardless of wingloading.

I apologize, I also missed the part where he indicated how many jumps he had. He lists Student and 1 year in the sport in his profile, but the way I understand many European countries will want you to jump student gear before graduating (just like US). Many countries also clear you for the gear of proper sizes (read Dragon2's posts, you get clearance to jump certain size/aggressivness canopies as you build up jump numbers). In other words there are already people watching over the folks.

[Gato 0]

Quote

Would a 143 reserve mean i would be instantly fucked if i needed it?

You don't want your first flight (under duress!) under the smallest 7-cell non-ZP parachute you've never flown. Bad recipe.

I'd keep looking - for that price, in my opinion, it should have an AAD included.

T.I.N.S.

[councilman24 37]

143 lbs naked or out the door? Big difference. Wing loading is based on everything you wear out the door of the aircraft. Including the main because you may have a total.

Assuming 143lb is naked ( you say you weigh, not your exit weight is) your probably going to be 165 to 170 out the door. PD recommends a max exit weight of 165 for an ADVANCED skydiver. 122 lbs for a beginning skydiver.

You would probably survive landing a 143 lb PD reserve. But that's not what should be on your back.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[DJL 235]

Quote

FYI im 143lbs (65kg) and i could have flown a 150 main, but i chose to go with a 170.. Would a 143 reserve mean i would be instantly fucked if i needed it? that's what it sounds like the way you write.

A 150 is still a very small canopy for a beginner, regardless of wingloading. It's uniquely unfortunate that light people can't just go for a 1:1 wingloading and be OK - this mentality has resulted in big injuries. As canopies get smaller the canopy is more reponsive because of size AND because the lines are shorter. A panic turn at a low altitude is then more likely to kill you.

Basically, if you're light then you have to take it back a step and stay on proportionatly larger gear at first. That means you'll also probably sit out more windy conditions so that you don't get blown to Texas because you have a frickin' skybarge over your head. Sucks, but that's how it is.

I would say "talk to your instructors" next but I won't. I'm not one but I've seen too many old codgers put light people on canopies that were too small because they adhered to the 1:1 rule. So I'll only say, do your research. PD wrote an article about just this same thing. See this link here with emphasis starting at IV.:

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/wingload.pdf

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Teigen 0]

Thanks Doug! good post!

I've talked to many people at my DZ, amongst them Europes first woman to hit the 10K jump mark. And their, and my own mentality has been the "better safe than sorry" one.. I CAN get a 150 but for my first rig a 170 is probably just fine for me! its alot more fun than the 220/240 ones i've flown on student rigs..

But when it comes to the reserve, i know its a 143, but it is designed for, and will save my life when i depend on it.. My landings have been light as kisses with the student rigs, and in a case of a reserve ride, i know that a 143 is a fast canopy, but it will get me down safely, thats what its designed for.. I can kill myself with the 170 too, i always did my landings as safe and gentle as possible..

[DJL 235]

You're making excuses because you found a sweet looking rig. There's not much about a reserve that makes it superior in saving your life over a main. Do you really want to downsize when you've had a low cut-away and have to land in someone's back yard?

If you're going to ignore advice that people learned the hard way then please spend some time on a 143 in ideal wind conditions to practice using it. Get a demo reserve from PD and jump the shit out of on no-wind days. Also be sure to have your best rhetoric available when people ask you what you're doing flying something so small.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[popsjumper 2]

On the one hand you say...

Quote

Thanks Doug! good post!

I've talked to many people at my DZ, amongst them Europes first woman to hit the 10K jump mark. And their, and my own mentality has been the "better safe than sorry" one..

...and then comes...

Quote

...i know its a 143, but...

and...

Quote

...i know that a 143 is a fast canopy, but...

Do you see what's going on here?
Yo8u're not listening.

Sure, you are excited about possibly getting your first rig. Understandable. Please don't make the mistake that so many others have made by buying something unsuitable for your CURRENT skill level.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[jumpwally 0]

I agree and also offer, any gear thats 10 years old should never cost more than 2 grand, thatbeing said follow the safety advice,,its all that matters......

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Teigen 0]

Damn people! Thanks for making me aware of this issue! I find it weird though, that a shop owner who is also an experienced jumper, would sell a rig to a rookie, that has a reserve in it that is considered too small.. They don't even profit from it..

You are all too experienced, i guess i have no choice but to rest my case! And i will look into the possibilities of fitting a bigger reserve in it, or finding a new system all together..

And YES i am excited!

[billvon 3,120]

>i know that a 143 is a fast canopy, but it will get me down safely . . .

Uh, reserves don't land you "safely" just because they're reserves. You have to be just as good at flying that 143 than you would be at flying a Triathalon 150 if you don't want to get hurt. There is nothing magic about a reserve that "gets you down safely."