half-a-greek 0 #1 January 22, 2009 Hi all, I'm relatively new off of student status, and I'm looking to get some gear. I've come across a auction for a PD-230 nine cell, as well as a PD-235 seven cell. PD-230 nine cell manufactured in 10/1993, with 900 jumps on it. PD-235 seven cell manufactured in 5/1995 with only 380 jumps on it. I think I'd prefer the nine cell. Although it's a little older than the seven cell, I like it due to the greater horizontal glide ratio. My only concern is that they are both F-111 canopies; I know that F-111 canopies have a shorter life span than ZP, so I'm thinking that 900 jumps is starting to become a little much on the porous material. I know that new canopies now a days do both ZP and F-111, but the mainstay now is all ZP. I'd like to get a ZP canopy, but canopies in my particular range are hard to find, and money is tight. I was wondering if any of you out there with personal experience could give me your thoughts on the PD nine or seven cell canopies, thanks all!!! Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #2 January 22, 2009 Buy something newer. 900 jumps on a 15 year old F-111 canopy...you can't possibly be THAT horny for a skydive. The seven cell is a bit better but only marginally so. They are being 'auctioned' because no one will buy 'em outright and they don't wanna throw them away. There is better gear available that's safe & affordable, go with something made this century. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #3 January 22, 2009 QuoteHi all, I'm relatively new off of student status, and I'm looking to get some gear. I've come across a auction for a PD-230 nine cell, as well as a PD-235 seven cell. PD-230 nine cell manufactured in 10/1993, with 900 jumps on it. Bid $5 on the 9-cell. It'll make a cool looking car cover once you cut the lines off that costs less than what you get at Pep Boys. Quote PD-235 seven cell manufactured in 5/1995 with only 380 jumps on it. With a total exit weight under 200 pounds that might might be a nice first (but not terribly exciting) canopy. Quote I know that new canopies now a days do both ZP and F-111, but the mainstay now is all ZP. I'd like to get a ZP canopy, but canopies in my particular range are hard to find, and money is tight. I paid $700 for my last used Javelin + reserve. I think I sold my last canopy (ZP) for $300 and have seen Monarchs in the same ball park. Unless we're talking about "under $1000" for the whole rig plus a few hundred for an old CYPRES or a couple hundred for the main by itself you can still do better when money is tight. Keep in mind that a good used ZP main depreciates about $1/jump provided you don't get close to the end of the current lineset's life and that you're going to have a hard time selling an old F111 seven cell that's on the small side for accuracy use. Long term it may cost you less to get a newer parachute even if there's more money out of your pocket now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #4 January 22, 2009 I currently fly a PD230 from 1996, but it only had about 30 jumps on it when I got it. I love it - I load mine at about 1.04:1, so I do get some decent forward speed out of it, and it's fun to fly and land. I'm going to put a hundred or so jumps on it, then try a Sabre or some other ZP main with a similar WL and planform. Having said that, a lot of folks don't like the idea of flying an old-school 9-cell canopy like the 230. There was a time, however, when the PD 9-cell was the trick shit. (Or so I've been told.) I have to agree, though, that you should stay away from any low-porosity main with that many jumps on it. If you know you want a PD230, I think my DZO got a few of them recently, and you could probably get good deal on a good one. Send me a PM if you're interested. (On the other hand, you and I could both just say, "Fuck it," and buy Cobalt 105's - whaddaya say??? ) T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #5 January 22, 2009 Quote I love it - I load mine at about 1.04:1, so I do get some decent forward speed out of it, and it's fun to fly and land. Sure. I loved all of my student canopies I jumped. I'm not in accuracy, so I would not buy F111 canonipes at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #6 January 22, 2009 QuoteI currently fly a PD230 from 1996, but it only had about 30 jumps on it when I got it. I love it - I load mine at about 1.04:1, so I do get some decent forward speed out of it, and it's fun to fly and land. I'm going to put a hundred or so jumps on it, then try a Sabre or some other ZP main with a similar WL and planform. F111 fllare power degrades after 300 jumps (PD's cross-braced F111 tri-cell was allegedly used up at this point), it's significant at 600, and by 1000 jumps you're in ankle-spraining territory at high elevations on hot summer days if you're not really small under a really big parachute. This assumes that the previous owners were honest about the number of jumps and those jumps didn't occur in a sandy environment which causes higher wear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #7 January 22, 2009 I had a PD-230 9 cell in F-111. I put about 55 jumps on it. I loaded it pretty light and I still had to time the flare perfectly or I would pound the landing. The best thing you could say about it was that it was easy to pack. I regretted that I bought it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #8 January 23, 2009 Quote F111 fllare power degrades after 300 jumps (PD's cross-braced F111 tri-cell was allegedly used up at this point), it's significant at 600, and by 1000 jumps you're in ankle-spraining territory at high elevations on hot summer days if you're not really small under a really big parachute. This assumes that the previous owners were honest about the number of jumps and those jumps didn't occur in a sandy environment which causes higher wear. Yeah, I have no intention of putting 300 jumps on this canopy - I got it from my DZO (Master Rigger & DPRE) for a really good price, and I know the jump numbers are correct. Oh, and to go along with what you said, he and a lot of the jumpers I know buy used canopies only from northern states and Canada for just the reasons you stated - no sandy environments, and short jumping seasons. Kind of like buying a car from a state that doesn't use salt on their roads, you know? To be clear, I'm not advocating the use of low-porosity mains - it's what I jump, and it's worked out very well so far. What I think is funny is that everyone keeps saying, "F-111", which isn't accurate. It's just more fun to say than "0-3 cfm Ripstop nylon."T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #9 January 23, 2009 Quote I'm not in accuracy, so I would not buy F111 canonipes at all. I don't blame you. I wouldn't buy any of those damn things, either. But I'll bet that those canonipes are made of 0-3 cfm, anyway. T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #10 January 23, 2009 Quote Quote I'm not in accuracy, so I would not buy F111 canonipes at all. I don't blame you. I wouldn't buy any of those damn things, either. But I'll bet that those canonipes are made of 0-3 cfm, anyway. No, they are made from splitted hair.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #12 January 23, 2009 Quote What I think is funny is that everyone keeps saying, "F-111", which isn't accurate. It's just more fun to say than "0-3 cfm Ripstop nylon." F-111 is accurate when you are discussing the 0-3 cfm ripstop nylon that was sold under the brand name F-111. I think it's funny that everyone says "zero porosity" which isn't accurate. It's just more fun to say than "zero permeability." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #13 January 23, 2009 QuoteWhat I think is funny is that everyone keeps saying, "F-111", which isn't accurate. It's just more fun to say than "0-3 cfm Ripstop nylon." It isn't really that funny. Many products throughout history had specific trade/brand names that, over time, have become a generic name to describe other similar products. Two examples that come to mind are aspirin and Kleenex. Both are names for a specific product but used generically to describe a pain reliever and a facial tissue. F-111 has become a generic name to describe 0-3 cfm ripstop nylon. To the OP. Look for something other than F-111.....errrr I mean 0-3 cfm ripstop nylon. It will cost you less in the long run because the canopy will last longer and it will have better resale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #14 January 23, 2009 Lets have one more slice. F1-11 is not F111, my bad.:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #15 January 23, 2009 Quote F-111 is accurate when you are discussing the 0-3 cfm ripstop nylon that was sold under the brand name F-111. I think it's funny that everyone says "zero porosity" which isn't accurate. It's just more fun to say than "zero permeability." Ok. I get it. This is what happens when a newb (me!) is about to get their rigger's ticket. I'll do my best to stop trying to be knowledge-impressive. So don't you make fun of my F1-11 canopy. I'm going to go have a coke. In the generic sense.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
