JohnMitchell 16 #26 April 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteVery stressful job but it pays well. BWAHAHA I wouldn't call GS-7 in a major metropolitan area "pays well"!!! The best that you can hope for is to last long enough to make it up to GS-12, or go management with a GM gig. Piss on it. mh .Wanna compare paystubs? We used to be GS-14's at Seattle Center, but we went to the special ATC pay scale, with locality adjustments. We're doing pretty damn well. Stressful, maybe, but usually only if you suck at it. If you run your traffic right, it's a lot of fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #27 April 14, 2005 Skylord has got the skinny on it. He's in the TRACON, I'm an Enroute controller ( or "center puke" as the tower guys call us.) The training program has changed a bit since he and I went through it, but it is still hard work and determination that will get you through. I really enjoy the work I do, and with a little luck you can get weekends off, but it does cut into jumping some, as almost any job will. Check all those govt. web pages on hiring and requirements. I would say now is a good time to get in. With a large chunk of controllers retiring over the next 5 years, they'll have to hire a lot of replacements. The earlier you get in, the better your senoirity, which controls your days off and vacation bids. Good luck. Feel free to PM me, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skylord 1 #28 April 14, 2005 QuoteSkylord has got the skinny on it. He's in the TRACON, I'm an Enroute controller ( or "center puke" as the tower guys call us.)Quote John, Yes, center puke, but I spent 9+ years at ZLA (can't disclose the actual name or I will have to kill you). "Tower guys" is a term I never heard. "Tower Flower", now we're talking!! Oh, how come center controllers lunch breaks are 30 minutes or less? If they were longer than that you'd have to re-train them. HAR-DE-HAR-HAR!!!!! I would just let everyone know out there seriously that there is a tremendous demand for young people for this profession. It pays well, but we only take the best. All the existing hiring lists will be completely drawn down by this time next year. Deciding on ATC as a profession was by far the best decision of my life. And I do enjoy working jump planes! Which is why I am soooo pissed at being told on my first solo jump to "go" when the green light was off. In two years, 11 months, I can retire and jump my ass off, or as a pilot fly jump runs with a sweet check coming in every month. Either way, I want some of you I've met working my flight. Six figures, all benefits, don't dismiss this opportunity....... BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 63 #29 April 14, 2005 Hi there again, Thanks for a load of great info!again, I will be applying in Poland, but I quess work environment is similar across the world. Thanks for great reply! I just got all the posts and messages. I was wondering about few things: Few questions came to my mind: 1. 40 hours seems a lot for a job requiring so much concentration. Do you have to look at the monitor and be very concentrated 8 hours straight? How many breaks/lunches do you get (to keep you "rested" and keep the planes safe)? Are you very exhausted when you leave at the end of the day? 2. I understand that ATC is open 24/7. Do newbies get night and weeked shifts. Do schedules change often? I mean I don't comlain, I used to work like that as a Gateway call center tech, I am just curious if you have to sacrifice a lot in the beggining (having low seniority level). I mean if you work 5pm - 1am Wed - Sun, you don't see you spouse or friends at all... Again, I am not a slacker, I just want to know some of the "minuses", as any job has them, and be ready for them. Thanks, Bart Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skylord 1 #30 April 14, 2005 The US is the only place in the industrialized world that has a 40 hour week. It is not 8 hours straight, you usually get four or five short breaks a day, and lunch. Sometimes not, though, too, depending on staffing. For 24/7 facilities, new hires usually end up on Wed/Thurs. days off, and work the same rotation we vets do, for example, 2-10 pm, 1-9 pm, 7 am-3 pm, 7am -3 pm, 6am-2 pm, or something like that. BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 63 #31 April 20, 2005 Thanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AiRpollUtiOn 0 #32 April 20, 2005 QuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck!"Don't make me come down there" - God. My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 63 #33 April 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck! Why? What's the problem? I do not want to work for American ATC companies. I will be applying here, in Poland. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AiRpollUtiOn 0 #34 April 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck! Why? What's the problem? I do not want to work for American ATC companies. I will be applying here, in Poland. You could choose for Polish local ATC, covering everything going up or down from or to the airways, or you could apply for a job @ Eurocontrol, controlling the European airways. Gives you options..."Don't make me come down there" - God. My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PsychoBob 0 #35 April 22, 2005 ***Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway I'm just got back from standing in the middle of a runway in Lakeland, FL. at Sun N Fun waiving off departures with orange wands. Two at a time, 500 ft apart. with props spinning everywhere. We launched 167 departures in 1 hour. Adrenalin rush at it's finest. We volunteer to work the fly-in/airshow for 10 days and it is a hoot. We also work in the tower and out at Lake Parker arrival. It is unconventional but fun as shit. I've been an FAA controller for over 16 years and was a US Navy controller for 5 years before that. Someone said something about being GS-12's in a metro are? You obviously don't have a clue about what what you are talking about nor about the ATC re-classification scale implemented about 5 years ago. My days off are Saturday-Sunday and every other Friday. A 3 day weekend every other week. As far as stress goes, that is what you make it. Some people see skydiving, kayaking, hell watching paint dry as stress. I just glad that I don't have to be worried about being bored at work."I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look at it" RB #1295, Smokey Sister #1, HellFish #658, Dirty Sanchez #194, Muff Brothers #3834, POPS #9614, Orfun Foster-Parent?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2fat2fly 0 #36 April 22, 2005 The May issue of Flying magazine has an article that you might want to read.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 63 #37 April 22, 2005 QuoteThe May issue of Flying magazine has an article that you might want to read. Could you scan it and e-mail to me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2fat2fly 0 #38 April 22, 2005 Bummer, no scanner-PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites golferbill 0 #39 May 3, 2005 QuoteThanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! Bob*** Everything he said is true! Great job! I have been a controller for almost 20 years, 3 in the ARMY, 17 in the FAA. I have worked at TUL (Tulsa), MGM (Montgomery), CSG (Columbus), PNS (Pensacola Tower [ thats right! with PsychoBob!}) and now work at P31 (Pensacola TRACON). But it dosn't compare to SKYDIVING! New FAA motto: Were not happy till you’re not happy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
skydiverek 63 #29 April 14, 2005 Hi there again, Thanks for a load of great info!again, I will be applying in Poland, but I quess work environment is similar across the world. Thanks for great reply! I just got all the posts and messages. I was wondering about few things: Few questions came to my mind: 1. 40 hours seems a lot for a job requiring so much concentration. Do you have to look at the monitor and be very concentrated 8 hours straight? How many breaks/lunches do you get (to keep you "rested" and keep the planes safe)? Are you very exhausted when you leave at the end of the day? 2. I understand that ATC is open 24/7. Do newbies get night and weeked shifts. Do schedules change often? I mean I don't comlain, I used to work like that as a Gateway call center tech, I am just curious if you have to sacrifice a lot in the beggining (having low seniority level). I mean if you work 5pm - 1am Wed - Sun, you don't see you spouse or friends at all... Again, I am not a slacker, I just want to know some of the "minuses", as any job has them, and be ready for them. Thanks, Bart Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skylord 1 #30 April 14, 2005 The US is the only place in the industrialized world that has a 40 hour week. It is not 8 hours straight, you usually get four or five short breaks a day, and lunch. Sometimes not, though, too, depending on staffing. For 24/7 facilities, new hires usually end up on Wed/Thurs. days off, and work the same rotation we vets do, for example, 2-10 pm, 1-9 pm, 7 am-3 pm, 7am -3 pm, 6am-2 pm, or something like that. BobBob Marks "-when you leave the airplane its all wrong til it goes right, its a whole different mindset, this is why you have system redundancy." Mattaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #31 April 20, 2005 Thanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AiRpollUtiOn 0 #32 April 20, 2005 QuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck!"Don't make me come down there" - God. My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #33 April 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck! Why? What's the problem? I do not want to work for American ATC companies. I will be applying here, in Poland. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AiRpollUtiOn 0 #34 April 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThanks again for great comments and input. Anyone alse has anything to add? Yup, I do... Something tells me the American ATC companies might not be what you are looking for so... clicky and the selection criteria Good luck! Why? What's the problem? I do not want to work for American ATC companies. I will be applying here, in Poland. You could choose for Polish local ATC, covering everything going up or down from or to the airways, or you could apply for a job @ Eurocontrol, controlling the European airways. Gives you options..."Don't make me come down there" - God. My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBob 0 #35 April 22, 2005 ***Especialy the part about standing at the end of the runway I'm just got back from standing in the middle of a runway in Lakeland, FL. at Sun N Fun waiving off departures with orange wands. Two at a time, 500 ft apart. with props spinning everywhere. We launched 167 departures in 1 hour. Adrenalin rush at it's finest. We volunteer to work the fly-in/airshow for 10 days and it is a hoot. We also work in the tower and out at Lake Parker arrival. It is unconventional but fun as shit. I've been an FAA controller for over 16 years and was a US Navy controller for 5 years before that. Someone said something about being GS-12's in a metro are? You obviously don't have a clue about what what you are talking about nor about the ATC re-classification scale implemented about 5 years ago. My days off are Saturday-Sunday and every other Friday. A 3 day weekend every other week. As far as stress goes, that is what you make it. Some people see skydiving, kayaking, hell watching paint dry as stress. I just glad that I don't have to be worried about being bored at work."I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look at it" RB #1295, Smokey Sister #1, HellFish #658, Dirty Sanchez #194, Muff Brothers #3834, POPS #9614, Orfun Foster-Parent?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #36 April 22, 2005 The May issue of Flying magazine has an article that you might want to read.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #37 April 22, 2005 QuoteThe May issue of Flying magazine has an article that you might want to read. Could you scan it and e-mail to me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2fat2fly 0 #38 April 22, 2005 Bummer, no scanner-PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites golferbill 0 #39 May 3, 2005 QuoteThanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! Bob*** Everything he said is true! Great job! I have been a controller for almost 20 years, 3 in the ARMY, 17 in the FAA. I have worked at TUL (Tulsa), MGM (Montgomery), CSG (Columbus), PNS (Pensacola Tower [ thats right! with PsychoBob!}) and now work at P31 (Pensacola TRACON). But it dosn't compare to SKYDIVING! New FAA motto: Were not happy till you’re not happy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
2fat2fly 0 #38 April 22, 2005 Bummer, no scanner-PM me your address and I'll mail it to you.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
golferbill 0 #39 May 3, 2005 QuoteThanks for the heads up on this thread, here is the info for US ATC. First off, it is a great, great job. I've been in it for almost 18 years now and never regretted a day of it. It is challenging, difficult, but rewarding. I work at Southern California Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON), the busiest facility of its kind in the world. Most of us were hired right after the 1981 PATCO debacle, which this year will be 24 years ago. The average career span of an ATC is 20-25 years, so we are retiring in great gobs. Over 12,500 will be hired in the next ten years. You take a civil service ATC aptitude test, and get put on a hiring list depending on your score. Once they get to you (which will be fast now that they are hiring people) you MUST pass a security and medical check. You must be at least 18, a US citizen, and you cannot have reached your 31st birthday unless you have previous qualifying ATC experience. High School diploma/GED required, and two years work experience (can be waived). Watch "Pushing Tin", and then shut it off after 20 minutes. That's the only realistic part of the movie. Visualization is the key in ATC, the scope gives you something to look at, and the rest you have to "see" in your head. We don't run around with each other's spouses (ok, maybe a bit of that happens) and we for damn sure don't lay around on runways getting sucked up into the sky from wake vortices. They've just changed the pay and benefits for FAA ATC new hires. You get hired, and you report to the Academy in Oklahoma City. They used to pay you what your facility starting salary was (busier the facility, the higher your pay.) Now they start everyone at about $17,000/yr. They used to pay per diem, up until about two weeks ago, so now you have to pay your own way except for airfare. They stripped away life/health/retirement benefits too. So, you have to be able to support yourself and family from (likely) a different city and pray no one gets sick or worse. I think that totally sucks. But I digress. Once you successfully complete academy training, you get assigned to your first facility, at your expense. No move money. IF you came to my facility, your pay would increase to about $45,000/yr., and after six months you would become eligible for retirement/health/life benefits and participation in the govt. quasi-401k program. If you are not successful, you will be terminated from the job. How's that for pressure? No chance at a less complex faciility. Your pay increases according to how fast you check out on different ATC control positions. Once done with training, you'll have a base salary of just over $100,000/yr, and while that sounds nice (and it is) you will work your ass off for it. Like skydiving, you will scare yourself shitless a few times, and wonder what the hell you did wrong in a previous life to deserve this. But anything worth doing is worth suffering for, within reason. We have a special retirement system that allows you to retire at 20 years of ATC service AND age 50, or 25 years at any age. So what's the job like? It is not the 24/7 frenetic panic mode, ulcer generating environment you see stereotyped in the movies. We do have some slow times, but when it gets busy, you have to think quick and you have to think right. You have to be able to work well with others because this really is a team job. Again, a great job let me know if you want more info. I have enough stories to write a book! Bob*** Everything he said is true! Great job! I have been a controller for almost 20 years, 3 in the ARMY, 17 in the FAA. I have worked at TUL (Tulsa), MGM (Montgomery), CSG (Columbus), PNS (Pensacola Tower [ thats right! with PsychoBob!}) and now work at P31 (Pensacola TRACON). But it dosn't compare to SKYDIVING! New FAA motto: Were not happy till you’re not happy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
