Buying first rig, advice appreciated

[Chrisky 2]

Very generaly speaking I'd say @ <200 jumps the choice would be:

Spectre good
Sabre 2 good/ok (depends on WL)
Silhouette good
Katana Bad
Navigator good
Lightning - no idea

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[Chrisky 2]

Could we please make that a Sticky? I've found myself mentally searching for that thread on the weekly "Need advice for first rig"-thread.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[Chrisky 2]

If all else fails (like: no master rigger in the area), you can send your H/C to the respective manufacturer with your measurements and get a fitted harness onto that container at a price. I read somewhere around here it might be around 300 bucks, but you'd better check that out before. If there's a master rigger in your area, he can do it too (i think).

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[ufk22 33]

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Thanks for more input :)

Katana is high performance? I read reviews stating its a soft opening with solid, gentle landings. Had 50/50 on it having 180 degree off heading openings, while the other half said perfect headings. I did think something would be different about it with that odd shape.

Not a CRW guy, so I'll put the lightning further down the list. What makes it a CRW type? On heading openings?

I'm working on my freefly, and I eventually want to work my way into videotography.

Crew canopies open like a bomb going off. That's part of their design, to open as fast as possible in a sub-terminal deployment. My first NEW canopy was an Interceptor, an early crew canopy. I ended up black and blue on both legs taking it to terminal until someone showed me how to pack it for "soft " openings, "roll the nose up past a B lines", and I still had a flying canopy in 100 feet. The lightning is even more explosive. If you had a premature opening while free flying it would rip your heart open, if you had a camera on, it would rip your head off.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Very generaly speaking I'd say @ <200 jumps the choice would be:

Spectre good
Sabre 2 good/ok (depends on WL)
Silhouette good
Katana Bad
Navigator good
Lightning - no idea

I'd add Pilot and Safire to the good list.

[degeneration 5]

Most of the canopies being mentioned so far are PD ones. Maybe it is a little restricted only looking at that brand?

I can 2nd the Aerodyne Pilot. I'm on 113 jumps. I'm jumping one at the mo' and absolutely loving it. Not had a single problem with it, opens softly and flies brilliantly. All my landings with the exception of my first jump on it (I quickly learnt it had a different flare height than my previous canopy!) have been very soft touch downs, even on nil wind days.

A lot of my friends jump saffires and they rave about those - they sound very much like my Pilot from what they've been saying.

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[Cinders 0]

Thanks. Most names that pop up are under that namebrand, so searching for others. http://www.skydivestore.com/getgear.cgi?Main~Canopies& carries PD, PA and NA, but not much info on like Voyager and Fusion from PA.

I'll look well into Pilot and Safire, sounds like a good contender for intermediate chutes.

Sabre2 is a solid, trustworthy chute to me. Always opens, once in a while with a poor heading and ALWAYS with the outside cell collapsed, but nothing a brake pull won't fix quick. Little slow to respond and landings in low wind can vary a little.

Navigator, I don't generally like. Have 30+ jumps on this one, always off heading openings and fairly rough ones at that, compared to the slow Sabre2. Having some bite in my thighs is common and I usually flinch when I pull, knowing its coming. But.... maybe some of this could be due to the low wingload. All they have is a 230, so its more than 1 sq ft to 1 lbs for me. Doubt it though, but possible.

[nomal2day 0]

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Very generaly speaking I'd say @ <200 jumps the choice would be:

Spectre good
Sabre 2 good/ok (depends on WL)
Silhouette good
Katana Bad
Navigator good
Lightning - no idea

I'd add Pilot and Safire to the good list.

I would add the Storm to the good list too. I have low jump numbers and I find it solid and stable, not a hard opening but also not a very long snivel; on heading with no end-cell closures. And there are no tricks needed for packing like rolling the nose. It has good flare power but you need to be prepared to use the full range of your arms.

'To fly is heaven, to freefall is divine'

'You only need 2 tools. WD40 for when it doesn't move but should, and duct tape for when it moves but shouldn't'

[mdrejhon 8]

Many used gear still come with Sabre originals. This is a fairly old airfoil, but excellent.

I would add Sabre (original) to the good list with the following caveats:
(1) It must use the PD recommended replacement oversize slider, to soften hard openings. You can measure the slider and verify with PD, and get a replacement if necessary.
(2) It is relatively low-jump (i.e. 200-300 jumps instead of 1000+ jump)
(3) Wingload is appropriate (i.e. something your entire dropzone staff trusts you on)

Started on mine more than 300 jumps ago at jump #59 (I also weighed a little less, so the wingloading was less than now), still jumping the same one mostly, and also learning how to swoop on it before downsizing to 150.

[likestojump 3]

I agree, with all but #2.

a properly maintained and recently relined 700 jump original Sabre makes a great first canopy if priced right. It will be much easier to pack than a 200 jump wing, and it should be fairly inexpensive. It's also a very nice wing to fly.

a newer slider and proper maintenance are a must unless you are a masochist :)

[Cinders 0]

Ok, working on my list of mains. I'm a little overwhelmed working on the the used list and putting together a rig.

Can't even find ANY chutes in my size, but then trying to find a compatible container, with AAD and find a reserve that'll work, etc.

Anyone know a good place to look for used gear? I've tried the back of the USPA mag and my local gear shop (which is very small, unfortunately, but only one in my size came through there in the last 3 years).

Here are some links I've tried and there are a few more I've forgotten already that had nothing also. BTW, none of these have my size or even close.

http://www.chutingstargear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36_37
http://www.totalcontrol.com.au/product-details.asp?iTopCatID=62&iCatID=107
http://buildarig.com/mains.htm
http://www.parachuteshop.com/
http://www.actionair.com/pdf/UsedGearMasterList5-08.pdf
http://www.baddogservices.com/
http://www.dropzone.com/links/Gear/Used_Gear/index.html (master list)

[halorob 0]

I am still on my first rig. I bought a rig made for one size down then what I was at knowing that the size canopy I was on would fit in the container. I can go through two sizes after I am flown out on my canopy I have now. Seemed like the wisest decision.

[Cinders 0]

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I am still on my first rig. I bought a rig made for one size down then what I was at knowing that the size canopy I was on would fit in the container. I can go through two sizes after I am flown out on my canopy I have now. Seemed like the wisest decision.

Dumb question, but is that totally safe? Doesn't slide around inside or cause any issues? Sounds like a good idea, never thought about buying a new container, but getting a used canopy. Is this common?

[skybytch 273]

If you haven't already, pick up the phone on Monday and call the gear stores you listed. It's always possible that they have things that haven't made it to the web.

Add Square One to your list of places to call.

Not sure how you're going about this, but the following strategy may work for you (it did for me when piecing together my last two rigs).

1. Determine the main and reserve sizes you want.
2. Find out what size harness should fit you.
3. Find/buy a harness/container system that will fit you and your canopies.
4. Find/buy a reserve the size you want.
5. Find/buy an AAD.
6. Have those three items assembled/packed. You will then have 3/4 of a rig; at that point you can borrow/demo/rent mains until you figure out which one is going to work best for you.

[skybytch 273]

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Dumb question, but is that totally safe?

Maybe, maybe not. Packing a main into a rig built for something one size smaller isn't fun (which could lead to downsizing too early or quitting the sport because you really really hate packing it), and doing so does put unneeded stress on the container closing flaps.

Pretty much every container on the market will safely hold a main one size smaller than what it was built for.

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Sounds like a good idea, never thought about buying a new container, but getting a used canopy. Is this common?

Very common. And not a bad idea at all, since zp canopies are easier to pack once they have a couple hundred jumps on them.

[halorob 0]

Don't play a guessing game with it though. I contacted the manufacturer and had a discussion. Turns out the guy I was talking to had the same container and he had the size canopy in his rig I planned on fitting in mine. Unless you have the money laying around it doesn't really make sense to buy a brand spanking new rig for your first rig. There is a lot of good quality gear people are trying to get rid of.

[tbrown 26]

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If the search function works, this question has been posted several times and in tremendous detail.

So "effing" what ?!? Cinders has been registered at dropzone for exactly six days. This question is important to him. If you, or anyone else doesn't like his question, you are free to not participate in the discussion.


Seriously folks, over the last several years we have dealt with just about every topic under the sun. Is it time to CLOSE these forums and put the whole thing on "search" auto pilot ?

I think not. Welcome Cinders, feel free to ask ANY question you like and FUCK those who are so put out by you that they can only WHINE about it. Amen.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[halorob 0]

Burn! I like your style.

[Cinders 0]

Thank you :)

I'm the retard that will ask everyone I meet the same question, then try to get an average of the answers and stick with that.

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If the search function works, this question has been posted several times and in tremendous detail.

So "effing" what ?!? Cinders has been registered at dropzone for exactly six days. This question is important to him. If you, or anyone else doesn't like his question, you are free to not participate in the discussion.


Seriously folks, over the last several years we have dealt with just about every topic under the sun. Is it time to CLOSE these forums and put the whole thing on "search" auto pilot ?

I think not. Welcome Cinders, feel free to ask ANY question you like and FUCK those who are so put out by you that they can only WHINE about it. Amen.