2fat2fly 0
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QuoteI posted here to argue a point. When someone has taken the reasons I feel I am justified in my views and has actually argued against them, I will listen.
QuoteBut, this was a DISCUSSION NOT AN ARGUMENT.
Which is it?
You're showing a LOT of hypocrisy in this thread, its really killing your point.
So tell me, is it a discussion or an arguement? Why did you inact a representation of a curse word in your thread title if you weren't venting any sort of anger?
What is your actual point besides that you feel its unfair that everyone except for men can have scholorships setup for their individual group?
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
hey I argued to ur points, and Im not venting on u in a personal level. I'm aurguing ur views. Your not going to have a discussion without some form of arguments. you put ur views out there, and there are some of us on here that are arguing that. I thought Dave did a very good job at arguing against ur point, maybe u just missed it, or maybe I was reading into it more then it said.
Just dont respond to the peoples post u feel are not sticking to ur debate guidlines. But I would very much like to know how you justify this statement. and if it's just simply "women have been opressed more therefore they deserve more" thats fine u can have that view. just dont look to me for support if u cant defend it any better then that. I think its wrong to give support to some groups, and then deny another group "exclusive" rights althogether because they have not had enough oppression in your mind.
Just dont respond to the peoples post u feel are not sticking to ur debate guidlines. But I would very much like to know how you justify this statement. and if it's just simply "women have been opressed more therefore they deserve more" thats fine u can have that view. just dont look to me for support if u cant defend it any better then that. I think its wrong to give support to some groups, and then deny another group "exclusive" rights althogether because they have not had enough oppression in your mind.
----
-God, you are the perfect amount of dumb...
-God, you are the perfect amount of dumb...
QuoteBut, males have not been oppressed to the best of my knowledge. So, i'm trying to understand why this scholarship is not opened to everyone, but only men. As a man you are eligible for a number of non-exclusive, financial or merit based scholarships. I don't see why this should be exclusive. I am considering applying to it!
They have been on the Berkeley campus. It's exactly the opinion you're expressing. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a newer scholarship, stemming out of the fight in the 90s to end direct affirmative action policies in admissions in the UC system, and the By Any Means Necessary protest groups that emerged.
There are a lot of men on campus struggling to make tuition and after a while it gets tiresome to talk about all the advantages you have. I was pretty lucky myself - no loans needed - but I often went to a 9am class after working in the lab from midnight to eight.
Go ahead and apply if you wish - I doubt you'll be the only one. But it's wasted effort, and won't convince them of the errors of their way.
PhreeZone 20
I think it would help a lot if you understood the Frat/Soriety structure and its purpose. Typically the houses take pledges through Rush week. To get new members they need to interview prospective members to make sure they are the type of people that the rest of the members want. A great way to get people is to offer up some $ and use those people as applicants. You get people that show the desire, through their essay's they can prove they have skills needed to keep the chapter running and growing, and they show they have social skills also.
Since a frat is for guys only... it only makes since to limit the scholorship to men.
And believe it or not men are having a hard time to get financial aid, I know I had to borrow up to my eyes to pay for school. I got academic scholarships, but everything else I was denied for since I was'nt a woman, or a minority or disabled, or in a certian program or a member of this group or something. Computer related degrees are a dime a dozen so the scholarships are very limited. So in that sense men are repressed for scholarships.
Since a frat is for guys only... it only makes since to limit the scholorship to men.
And believe it or not men are having a hard time to get financial aid, I know I had to borrow up to my eyes to pay for school. I got academic scholarships, but everything else I was denied for since I was'nt a woman, or a minority or disabled, or in a certian program or a member of this group or something. Computer related degrees are a dime a dozen so the scholarships are very limited. So in that sense men are repressed for scholarships.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
The US Dept of Education has a dept, the National Center for Education Statistics.
Gender study
Even traditionally male-dominated universities like Harvard, the 2008 population will be mostly female.
The tired old whine about women in the sciences was from derived from what is referred to as a Gender Activism Study. The American Assoc of Univ Women totally omitted several parts of the study in order to slant what became known as the benchmark of sexist propaganda.
People need to read some facts instead of just swallowing whatever trash the AAUW puts on tv.
Gender study
QuoteActually, men are under-represented in colleges in every area.
Women are 56 percent of undergraduates, soon to be 57 percent.
Women surpassed their male peers in degree attainment over the last 30 years.
Women made up 63 percent of Black undergraduates.
62 percent of students age 40 or older
70 percent of single parents
Even traditionally male-dominated universities like Harvard, the 2008 population will be mostly female.
The tired old whine about women in the sciences was from derived from what is referred to as a Gender Activism Study. The American Assoc of Univ Women totally omitted several parts of the study in order to slant what became known as the benchmark of sexist propaganda.
People need to read some facts instead of just swallowing whatever trash the AAUW puts on tv.
I have gotten some well thought out replies, thanks guys.
I didn't realize this was what it was about. Thanks for explaining. I can see why this would be limited to men in that case.
I was just looking through the scholarships and there seem to be very many geared to minorities/ under-represented groups. I also see others that are merit based, so they are out there. I am also a victim of the loan game. I don't qualify for Pell, but i've saved none of the riches that I earned last year after paying my pesky bills and jumping.
I got one of the scholarships from the campus, but it is given to men and women alike for merit and need. A lot of the women ones focus on those who are much into community service, and who are going into a service-based industry, etc... so I wouldn't qualify anyhow. I didn't see any sorority scholarsips, but i'm not going to join one anyhow I don't think.. they tend to preach oneness of the group, god stuff, etc, and i'm not into that.
Thanks for the reply.
Angela.
QuoteI think it would help a lot if you understood the Frat/Soriety structure and its purpose. Typically the houses take pledges through Rush week. To get new members they need to interview prospective members to make sure they are the type of people that the rest of the members want. A great way to get people is to offer up some $ and use those people as applicants. You get people that show the desire, through their essay's they can prove they have skills needed to keep the chapter running and growing, and they show they have social skills also.
I didn't realize this was what it was about. Thanks for explaining. I can see why this would be limited to men in that case.
QuoteAnd believe it or not men are having a hard time to get financial aid, I know I had to borrow up to my eyes to pay for school. I got academic scholarships, but everything else I was denied for since I was'nt a woman, or a minority or disabled, or in a certian program or a member of this group or something. Computer related degrees are a dime a dozen so the scholarships are very limited. So in that sense men are repressed for scholarships.
I was just looking through the scholarships and there seem to be very many geared to minorities/ under-represented groups. I also see others that are merit based, so they are out there. I am also a victim of the loan game. I don't qualify for Pell, but i've saved none of the riches that I earned last year after paying my pesky bills and jumping.
I got one of the scholarships from the campus, but it is given to men and women alike for merit and need. A lot of the women ones focus on those who are much into community service, and who are going into a service-based industry, etc... so I wouldn't qualify anyhow. I didn't see any sorority scholarsips, but i'm not going to join one anyhow I don't think.. they tend to preach oneness of the group, god stuff, etc, and i'm not into that.
Thanks for the reply.
Angela.
Well, for starters, go here and look at all the scholarships for "under-represented" groups.
They have scholarships expressly for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered people and searches to make it easier to find.
Personaly, I think scholarships that handed out based on any criteria other than need or merit are absurd. But when they are funded from private institutions, well, whatever, it is their money.
I am all for giving the underprivledged a leg up, but to base admissions or scholarships on anything other than merit first, and need second, is unjust.
Just my opinion.
Methane Freefly - got stink?
They have scholarships expressly for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered people and searches to make it easier to find.
Personaly, I think scholarships that handed out based on any criteria other than need or merit are absurd. But when they are funded from private institutions, well, whatever, it is their money.
I am all for giving the underprivledged a leg up, but to base admissions or scholarships on anything other than merit first, and need second, is unjust.
Just my opinion.
Methane Freefly - got stink?
champu 1
QuoteThey have not endured any oppression for being men...
so, WHAT GIVES??
"This is why we can't have nice things."
Thanks for the explanation--I think I see where you are coming from. As far as the male perspective goes, I can only offer mine. After many years in workplaces where Affirmative Action was the rule, I must admit that I do tend to be very suspicious of the abilities of minorities, although not women.
Affirmative action and the clauses that are put in government contracts requiring contractors to subcontract out a certain percentage of contract value to SDBs (Small Disadvantaged Businesses, i.e., businesses owned by a minority or women) have created an enormous amount of suspicion toward the abilities of minorities and women to perform in the workplace.
During my last semester of college (University of Texas at Austin; Electrical Engineering), the recruiters were holding interviews. Jobs were very scarce at the time and even very sharp people were having trouble finding jobs. One woman I knew was a year away from graduating and was on Academic Probation for having less than a "C" average. It was likely that she would be thrown out of the program for failing grades. Anyway, she easily got three job offers from companies that needed a token. This is not sour grapes because of any hard feelings I had toward her--I used to hang out with her and liked her a lot.
Here's another example. I worked for IBM Federal Systems on the Space Station project. The contract required IBM to subcontract a certain portion of its contract to SDBs. In one case, IBM subcontracted some work to an SDB and they (the SDB), in turn subcontracted the work back to IBM!!!
Don't even get me started about the laziness, incompetence, and insubordination that I have seen by women and minorities who knew they could get away with it because of their gender and/or skin color.
I should make it clear that I do not have a negative attitude toward women in the workplace--or minorities for that matter. I have worked with and FOR a number of women, many of whom I admire and respect greatly.
The reason you are seeing some angry responses to your original post is that the kinds of experiences I have mentioned have been very widespread in U.S. companies for many years. Minorities and women have often been hired and promoted over more qualified (and financially needy) white males. Trust me--there is a lot of frustration out there over it.
On the other hand, some very sharp women have had to be very careful not to end up in jobs given to "tokens". It is a fact of life in corporate America that one of the costs of doing business is hiring women and minorities and putting them in positions where they will do the least amount of damage.
All considered, it's probably just one of those things that is better left ignored. Nothing can or will be done on a widespread scale about attitudes toward women and minorities in the workplace--these attitudes have been many years in the making. All you can do is just do the best you can and hope someone notices.
On a closing note, I think you will find that a "men only" scholarship is one of the LEAST objectional things you will run across during your academic and work/business careers. If you think the scholarship is bad, I suggest that you really brace yourself for the future, because there is no such thing as a level playing field for anyone.
On a slightly related topic, does it seem weird to anyone but me when there are women's record attempts in skydiving? Or POPS? Or SOS?
I wish you well.
Walt
Affirmative action and the clauses that are put in government contracts requiring contractors to subcontract out a certain percentage of contract value to SDBs (Small Disadvantaged Businesses, i.e., businesses owned by a minority or women) have created an enormous amount of suspicion toward the abilities of minorities and women to perform in the workplace.
During my last semester of college (University of Texas at Austin; Electrical Engineering), the recruiters were holding interviews. Jobs were very scarce at the time and even very sharp people were having trouble finding jobs. One woman I knew was a year away from graduating and was on Academic Probation for having less than a "C" average. It was likely that she would be thrown out of the program for failing grades. Anyway, she easily got three job offers from companies that needed a token. This is not sour grapes because of any hard feelings I had toward her--I used to hang out with her and liked her a lot.
Here's another example. I worked for IBM Federal Systems on the Space Station project. The contract required IBM to subcontract a certain portion of its contract to SDBs. In one case, IBM subcontracted some work to an SDB and they (the SDB), in turn subcontracted the work back to IBM!!!
Don't even get me started about the laziness, incompetence, and insubordination that I have seen by women and minorities who knew they could get away with it because of their gender and/or skin color.
I should make it clear that I do not have a negative attitude toward women in the workplace--or minorities for that matter. I have worked with and FOR a number of women, many of whom I admire and respect greatly.
The reason you are seeing some angry responses to your original post is that the kinds of experiences I have mentioned have been very widespread in U.S. companies for many years. Minorities and women have often been hired and promoted over more qualified (and financially needy) white males. Trust me--there is a lot of frustration out there over it.
On the other hand, some very sharp women have had to be very careful not to end up in jobs given to "tokens". It is a fact of life in corporate America that one of the costs of doing business is hiring women and minorities and putting them in positions where they will do the least amount of damage.
All considered, it's probably just one of those things that is better left ignored. Nothing can or will be done on a widespread scale about attitudes toward women and minorities in the workplace--these attitudes have been many years in the making. All you can do is just do the best you can and hope someone notices.
On a closing note, I think you will find that a "men only" scholarship is one of the LEAST objectional things you will run across during your academic and work/business careers. If you think the scholarship is bad, I suggest that you really brace yourself for the future, because there is no such thing as a level playing field for anyone.
On a slightly related topic, does it seem weird to anyone but me when there are women's record attempts in skydiving? Or POPS? Or SOS?
I wish you well.
Walt
Icon134 0
Edited: because PhreeZone already answered most of the questions...
In regards to women in sciences and mathematics... I know several very smart, awesome, beautiful women with degrees in... mathematics, engineering, etc...
and my sister has a Ph. D. in chemistry... personally l have a great deal of respect for women in sciences and find that they are just as skilled as anyone else I've seen in them...
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
In regards to women in sciences and mathematics... I know several very smart, awesome, beautiful women with degrees in... mathematics, engineering, etc...
and my sister has a Ph. D. in chemistry... personally l have a great deal of respect for women in sciences and find that they are just as skilled as anyone else I've seen in them...
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...
Lindsey 0
Being a woman, I see that it is harder for us to be accepted.
BS!!!! I've never found it hard to be accepted. Maybe you do, but I don't find being accepted problematic. Men only may think that I'm not capable until I show them just how capable I am.
It's a fraternity offering a scholarship to men. Why would men have to be oppressed in order to offer their own a scholarship???? GEEZ!!!!!
linz
BS!!!! I've never found it hard to be accepted. Maybe you do, but I don't find being accepted problematic. Men only may think that I'm not capable until I show them just how capable I am.
It's a fraternity offering a scholarship to men. Why would men have to be oppressed in order to offer their own a scholarship???? GEEZ!!!!!
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail
Ron 10
QuoteThey have not endured any oppression for being men...
so, WHAT GIVES??
What the hell is wrong with it?
I hate it when people bitch about sexist situations and people, and all the time they are being sexist.
If there are programs for females...Why not males? Males not deserving enough IN YOUR EYES?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
wmw999 2,560
As another employee of the IBM Federal Systems Division, I guess I have to reply 
I've worked with and/or for lazy, incompetent men, and lazy, incompetent women of more than one ethnic group.
By and large, the "lazy, incompetent" moniker comes when someone feels they have the job no matter what they do. They've "earned" it or inherited it, and don't have to continue to earn it.
Can happen from knowing the CEO, going to the same church as the hiring manager, coming from the right university, being a targeted gender or minority -- all kinds of things. People tend to hire those who are like them, or who automatically appeal to them. Ergo, not people who aren't like them, or whom they have traditionally not valued particularly. "They just don't fit in as well" or "they won't work as well in our team atmosphere."
It used to be that women and minorities automatically wouldn't fit in as well. After all, the customers might not respect them, or they might be uncomfortable with the language used around the workplace, or they were going to quit and have babies anyway. And they're self-fulfilling prophecies -- if you hang with your buddies, well, they'll hear all the opportunities first. Not because you're hiding them from the other folks, but just because stuff comes up in casual conversation.
I'm pontificating here, but, well, as a female and a manager
, I've earned that right.
Wendy W.
I've worked with and/or for lazy, incompetent men, and lazy, incompetent women of more than one ethnic group.
By and large, the "lazy, incompetent" moniker comes when someone feels they have the job no matter what they do. They've "earned" it or inherited it, and don't have to continue to earn it.
Can happen from knowing the CEO, going to the same church as the hiring manager, coming from the right university, being a targeted gender or minority -- all kinds of things. People tend to hire those who are like them, or who automatically appeal to them. Ergo, not people who aren't like them, or whom they have traditionally not valued particularly. "They just don't fit in as well" or "they won't work as well in our team atmosphere."
It used to be that women and minorities automatically wouldn't fit in as well. After all, the customers might not respect them, or they might be uncomfortable with the language used around the workplace, or they were going to quit and have babies anyway. And they're self-fulfilling prophecies -- if you hang with your buddies, well, they'll hear all the opportunities first. Not because you're hiding them from the other folks, but just because stuff comes up in casual conversation.
I'm pontificating here, but, well, as a female and a manager
, I've earned that right.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
ChrisL 2
Quote
But, males have not been oppressed to the best of my knowledge. So, i'm trying to understand why this scholarship is not opened to everyone, but only men.
I'm trying to figure out why being oppressed is your criteria for eligability for a scholarship.
If you have not been oppressed, you dont qualify.
Interesting theory.
I'm part Irish. My ancestors were oppressed by the British. I deserve a scholarship because of it. Good thing too because I'm a man and therefore dont qualify on any other grounds
__
My mighty steed
My mighty steed
Well, you wanted someone to argue the points. Here's my attempt:
I've got Irish ancestry, along with some English and Scandinavian. The Irish side of me always wants to blow up the English side of me, and the English side wants to throw the Irish side into a jail cell. When I lose weight, it's a matter of my Irish side hunger striking. My scandinavian side, however, maintains strict neutrality.
My McLimey ancestry certainly faced oppression in the past. They were underpaid railroad workers and lowly regarded potatoheads.
Still, for some reason, I haven't spent much time feeling sorry for myself as a heterosexual-Euro-Caucasian-North Altlantic-Island-American-Male (HECNAIAM). In terms of this group-identity self-pity competition, I'm genetically not well programmed for it.
Al Campanis and Jimmy the Greek could have said the following about me: "He's a HECNAIAM, and he simply lacks the genetics to show a significant amount of victimhood. I mean, change any one of his characteristics and he could have had a claim. For example, if he changed the ECNAI to "Armenian" he could claim continuing repression from the genocide. His breeding operates against him."
Of course you realize that what you are saying is no better than Campanis or Jimmy the Greek. They both claimed that on the basis of breeding, blacks aren't capable at certain things, right? YOU say that on the basis of the Y Chromosome, we've got no claim to being oppressed.
I don't claim to be oppressed. Why? I don't have time. I've got a severe case of ADHD. Academic curricula was oppressive to me, and I failed out of college. Amazingly, once I quit saying, "Oh, boo hoo. I've got ADHD and the system is all set up against me," I was surprised to find out that by simply changing my mindset, there was no reason why I couldn't excel at it. Oh, boo hoo, I averaged a high B once I got back in. What changed? I DID.
Well, here's some news for you - You don't have to give scholarships on the basis of oppression. You can give scholarships for whatever you want to give them.
Why is it harder to be accepted? I look in the mirror and I see a fat guy. Everyone else tells me I'm too skinny. It turns out that what we see isn't always the way it is. If you change your mindset on it, I'm sure your observations would be different.
Men tend to think you aren't as capable? Have you ever thought of using that to your advantage? Other attorneys in my town think I'm young and inexperienced. I let them. They let their guard down that way. Then I merely show them that they underestimated me. Women do that all the time. I've learned to NEVER underestimate a woman. In fact, we have client who specifically want a woman attorney. I've never seen one who specifically wants a man. Women are viewed by many to be better at this than men - more powerful, better scrappers, and stronger personalities. My personal experience is that women have a perceived advantage over men.
As a child you were not exposed to anything science? Do you mean you never took biology, chemistry or physics in high school? Did you never take math? All sciences. you just apparently never took to it. You could have, but your choices were elsewhere.
Oh, yeah? Look at prison statistics and the breast to teste ratio.
Maybe this is so striking to you because it's so rare. Men need help, too. And when all the helping hands are given to others with perceived oppression, men can slip through the cracks.
So is everyone else, but an exclusive scholarship makes news.
It's exclusive for the same reason that sex with me is open to my wife and my wife only - the choice of the giver.
Why? Here - take a look here.
http://scholarships.berkeley.edu/scholdb/searchspecial.lasso
It's got plenty of scholarships for which you would be eligible and for which I would not be.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
QuoteI'm not much for affirmative action... but since i'm not black and have ancestors that endured slavery. I am not hispanic, myself or family having arrived here a mere generation ago with nothing. I am not jewish, having family that lived through the holocaust, etc... so, because I don't understand it, I tend not to bitch bout it.
I've got Irish ancestry, along with some English and Scandinavian. The Irish side of me always wants to blow up the English side of me, and the English side wants to throw the Irish side into a jail cell. When I lose weight, it's a matter of my Irish side hunger striking. My scandinavian side, however, maintains strict neutrality.
My McLimey ancestry certainly faced oppression in the past. They were underpaid railroad workers and lowly regarded potatoheads.
Still, for some reason, I haven't spent much time feeling sorry for myself as a heterosexual-Euro-Caucasian-North Altlantic-Island-American-Male (HECNAIAM). In terms of this group-identity self-pity competition, I'm genetically not well programmed for it.
Al Campanis and Jimmy the Greek could have said the following about me: "He's a HECNAIAM, and he simply lacks the genetics to show a significant amount of victimhood. I mean, change any one of his characteristics and he could have had a claim. For example, if he changed the ECNAI to "Armenian" he could claim continuing repression from the genocide. His breeding operates against him."
Of course you realize that what you are saying is no better than Campanis or Jimmy the Greek. They both claimed that on the basis of breeding, blacks aren't capable at certain things, right? YOU say that on the basis of the Y Chromosome, we've got no claim to being oppressed.
I don't claim to be oppressed. Why? I don't have time. I've got a severe case of ADHD. Academic curricula was oppressive to me, and I failed out of college. Amazingly, once I quit saying, "Oh, boo hoo. I've got ADHD and the system is all set up against me," I was surprised to find out that by simply changing my mindset, there was no reason why I couldn't excel at it. Oh, boo hoo, I averaged a high B once I got back in. What changed? I DID.
Well, here's some news for you - You don't have to give scholarships on the basis of oppression. You can give scholarships for whatever you want to give them.
QuoteBeing a woman, I see that it is harder for us to be accepted. Men tend to think that i'm not as capable because i'm a woman, and as a child I was not exposed to anything science, etc... so I can see why scholarships out there for women going into science and engineering are a good thing.
Why is it harder to be accepted? I look in the mirror and I see a fat guy. Everyone else tells me I'm too skinny. It turns out that what we see isn't always the way it is. If you change your mindset on it, I'm sure your observations would be different.
Men tend to think you aren't as capable? Have you ever thought of using that to your advantage? Other attorneys in my town think I'm young and inexperienced. I let them. They let their guard down that way. Then I merely show them that they underestimated me. Women do that all the time. I've learned to NEVER underestimate a woman. In fact, we have client who specifically want a woman attorney. I've never seen one who specifically wants a man. Women are viewed by many to be better at this than men - more powerful, better scrappers, and stronger personalities. My personal experience is that women have a perceived advantage over men.
As a child you were not exposed to anything science? Do you mean you never took biology, chemistry or physics in high school? Did you never take math? All sciences. you just apparently never took to it. You could have, but your choices were elsewhere.
QuoteBut, males have not been oppressed to the best of my knowledge.
Oh, yeah? Look at prison statistics and the breast to teste ratio.
Quote, i'm trying to understand why this scholarship is not opened to everyone, but only men
Maybe this is so striking to you because it's so rare. Men need help, too. And when all the helping hands are given to others with perceived oppression, men can slip through the cracks.
Quotea man you are eligible for a number of non-exclusive, financial or merit based scholarships.
So is everyone else, but an exclusive scholarship makes news.
QuoteI don't see why this should be exclusive.
It's exclusive for the same reason that sex with me is open to my wife and my wife only - the choice of the giver.
QuoteI am considering applying to it!
Why? Here - take a look here.
http://scholarships.berkeley.edu/scholdb/searchspecial.lasso
It's got plenty of scholarships for which you would be eligible and for which I would not be.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
People can give scholarships out to whomever they want. I'm fine with that. There are many essay writing contests for scholarships. Those are completely subjective. Scholarships aren't exactly a "right." If someone wants to support a certain group by giving out scholarships, so be it.
There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning
When I went to grad school, I looked for fellowships. Looked through a whole catalog of them. Regardless of the theme of the fellowship or the organization that was giving it out, they ALL had a gender and/or ethnicity requirement. I am a white man, the only type that NONE of them would take. If I were black, American Indian, hispanic or asian, or a woman of any ethnicity, I would have been able to find one or the other.
The thing is, they don't just come right out and say,"This fellowship is open to all applicants except white men." They give an exhaustive list of acceptable applicants, listing women, and then listing all of the major ethnicities except European/white for men.
Needless to say, I went & got the big ass student loans.
The thing is, they don't just come right out and say,"This fellowship is open to all applicants except white men." They give an exhaustive list of acceptable applicants, listing women, and then listing all of the major ethnicities except European/white for men.
Needless to say, I went & got the big ass student loans.
Speed Racer
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jenfly00 0
QuoteI'm not much for affirmative action... but since i'm not black and have ancestors that endured slavery. I am not hispanic, myself or family having arrived here a mere generation ago with nothing. I am not jewish, having family that lived through the holocaust, etc... so, because I don't understand it, I tend not to bitch bout it.
Being a woman, I see that it is harder for us to be accepted. Men tend to think that i'm not as capable because i'm a woman, and as a child I was not exposed to anything science, etc... so I can see why scholarships out there for women going into science and engineering are a good thing.
But, males have not been oppressed to the best of my knowledge. So, i'm trying to understand why this scholarship is not opened to everyone, but only men. As a man you are eligible for a number of non-exclusive, financial or merit based scholarships. I don't see why this should be exclusive. I am considering applying to it!
Angela.
I have come to realize that one of the reasons women are finding acceptance in today's society difficult is the ever continuing 'we are special and deserve more' attitude. I can understand why men are tired of that crap.
Get over yourself. Inequality oppresses all involved.
jen
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
Are you STILL having problems with your reading and comprehension skills, Jen?
I haven't even applied for women-only scholarships, I mentioned that I wasn't much for affirmative action. However, I have SEEN that I am treated differently because of my sex, and I DO keep on working regardless.
But, what I said was that I can SEE why these things are out there for minorities, women, etc. Women are still not equal to men as far as society is concerned. It'd be great to give them incentive to reach further.
I am sorry you have such a problem the opinions of others and constantly seek to insult people. I don't feel I need to "get over myself" at all. I do not think ask for anything extra for my gender, but I don't want to be excluded because of it, either. My problem with a scholarship for men is that it is exclusive of the group that is already behind in big business, politics, etc., etc.
Like I said, i'm not much for affirmative action, but I try to understand why these types of scholarships are out there. For this one, I really could not see why. I don't think my not seeing this warrants a "get over yourself."
-A
QuoteI have come to realize that one of the reasons women are finding acceptance in today's society difficult is the ever continuing 'we are special and deserve more' attitude. I can understand why men are tired of that crap.
Get over yourself. Inequality oppresses all involved.
jen
I haven't even applied for women-only scholarships, I mentioned that I wasn't much for affirmative action. However, I have SEEN that I am treated differently because of my sex, and I DO keep on working regardless.
But, what I said was that I can SEE why these things are out there for minorities, women, etc. Women are still not equal to men as far as society is concerned. It'd be great to give them incentive to reach further.
I am sorry you have such a problem the opinions of others and constantly seek to insult people. I don't feel I need to "get over myself" at all. I do not think ask for anything extra for my gender, but I don't want to be excluded because of it, either. My problem with a scholarship for men is that it is exclusive of the group that is already behind in big business, politics, etc., etc.
Like I said, i'm not much for affirmative action, but I try to understand why these types of scholarships are out there. For this one, I really could not see why. I don't think my not seeing this warrants a "get over yourself."
-A
Icon134 0
QuoteWomen are still not equal to men as far as society is concerned.
If this is true then why is it that most women tend to marry men that are less educated then they are?
I know my mother is more highly educated then my father... and my sister is more highly educated then her current boyfriend...
This statement just isn't as true as it was maybe 10-15 years ago... at least I don't think it is?
I'm sorry you feel oppressed S-N-F but maybe you just aren't around the right people.
I
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...
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