SpeedRacer 1 #1 March 9, 2003 Yep, that's right. Do you think there might be something wrong with my packing?? I went to Chambersburg, PA for Safety Day. Met dzdiva there! I couldn't jump (I'm not current & neither is my reserve) but I went to all the seminars. It was great! I am really glad I went, the seminars were very informative. During the last seminar JR (the DZO) gave a demonstration of cutaway cable housings. I had asked him previously if I could have my rig hooked up to a hanging harness so I could practice a cutaway. So JR used me as a guinea pig during the seminar. He hooked up my rig to the hanging harness and hooked a hanging scale through the cutaway handle. He had me cutaway while someone looked at the scale to see how much tension was being applied. Then he had me do it again with cable housings inserted into the risers, first with plastic housings, then with steel housings. We demonstrated those same three combinations with me hanging normally, then with two line twists, then with two line twists at 2 Gs. We simulated 2 Gs by having a guy who weighed about the same as me hanging onto my back. The results were amazing. When I was just hanging straight, I could cutaway with about 5-10 pounds (closer to 5) of force, regardless of the presence of cable housings. With two line twists introduced, results went as follows: No housings: 45 pounds of force (use two hands, folks!) Plastic housings: 10 pounds Steel housings: 5-10 pounds. With 2 line twists plus 2 Gs: No housings: Off the scale. Scale only measures to 50 lbs, but there was still room for the needle to go up above the 50 lb mark. Basically, I had the needle slammed all the way up against the top, well beyond the 50 lb mark. Plastic housings: 25 pounds Steel housings: 5-10 lbs This is really important, folks. If you've got line twists, suddenly it takes 10 times as much pressure to cutaway. Plastic housings help a lot, but if you're in a spin, you're gonna have G-forces, which can compress the plastic when the risers are twisted against each other. Steel housings do not compress, you can't even flatten them with a hammer. Moral of the story: Get some f&*king steel housings in your risers!! They don't cost much to get, they're an amazingly simple thing & they could save your life!! The difference in pull effort was AMAZING! Believe me, I know, I was doing all the cutaways!! ps There was an article about these cable housings in Parachutist last year. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #2 March 9, 2003 Great stuff Speedster. A fairly graphic indication, I have a questions for you if I may..... What type of risers were you testing, standard or mini? For the heavier pulls, would you have been able to exert that pull through a standard pad with one hand? Thanks again for posting your findings, I just hope its not lost in all the political discourse that is going on just now, maybe it could be moved or crossed to GnR, or SnT.. Cya D-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #3 March 9, 2003 well, I guess they're called mini-risers. They're the ones most rigs have, I think. I've never had a cutaway(in the air i mean) but I always practice by using two-handed pulls. 1) you never know how much force it will take & 2) prevents you from pulling out of sequence or say, pulling your reserve rip chord faster than you pull your cutaway handle. (This can happen, remember your reserve pilot chute pops out like a jack-in-the-box, whereas your cables have to be pulled out manually) I will admit this: For the demonstration, I was pulling much slower than I would in real life, so that the guy watching the scale would have a chance to read it. But those ones with line twists without the housings were some hard f&*king pulls. It's questionable whether I'd be able to do a one-handed pull, but my guess is probably not, especially with the line twists AND the 2Gs. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYEVOUT 0 #4 March 9, 2003 Well, Speed I spent the day with 2 DZ.commers, and still never met one. I should get a DYEVOUT hat. I wish I would have stayed for the last seminar, but I had to split. Pretty drastic difference in drag w/steel housings!! Definitely something to bear in mind while shopping for rig #1. ----------------=8^)---------------------- "I think that was the wrong tennis court." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzdiva 7 #5 March 9, 2003 That last seminar was definitely an eye opener. Very interesting. I'll have pics for anyone interested!Dyevout-where were ya? You sure you were there? "It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 March 9, 2003 Yeah Dyveout, I knew you were going to be there. But I was going by your avatar, & I didn't see anyone who looked that furry. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
suz 0 #7 March 9, 2003 HAD NINE CUTAWAYS IN ONE DAY! Quote Do you think there might be something wrong with my packing?? Nah!!!! Quote I went to Chambersburg, MD for Safety Day. BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Maybe it was a jinx???? Hee hee hee. Quote I couldn't jump (I'm not current & neither is my reserve) but I went to all the seminars. It was great! I am really glad I went, the seminars were very informative. During the last seminar JR (the DZO) gave a demonstration of cutaway cable housings. I had asked him previously if I could have my rig hooked up to a hanging harness so I could practice a cutaway. ROTFLMAFO - Pays when you read on...... I think I'll just go and sit in this corner, and keep my mouth shut. Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYEVOUT 0 #8 March 9, 2003 Ize in the rear, left corner of the room - with a big ol' grey "Skydive" sweater, and a flat - top. I wouldn't mind seeing some images of the cutaway seminar, post them bad boys. ----------------=8^)---------------------- "I think that was the wrong tennis court." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #9 March 9, 2003 How big of a deal would this be on a larger canopy. Say a 160sqft Triathlon loaded at about 1:1? I was told that it can't really spin me up so bad I can't cut away manually, so the inserts aren't that big of a deal. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #10 March 10, 2003 well, they're cheap & small. my rigger is charging me $20 parts & labor. WTF. and I have a 170 sq ft rectangular VERY STABLE canopy. I'm getting them. anyone can get a line twist, and that alone without spinning(without extra Gs)increases the pull force by almost 10 fold (see first post). Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #11 March 10, 2003 QuoteSay a 160sqft Triathlon loaded at about 1:1? I was told that it can't really spin me up so bad I can't cut away manually Don't buy this one. If I can get spun up on my tri 190, you can get it on your 160. Granted, it's much less likely than a tiny elliptical, but it can happen. I have standard three-rings, which scale the force much better and don't present quite as many problems in the scenario.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #12 March 10, 2003 Quote Get some f&*king steel housings in your risers!! I'll have them in my new rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #13 March 10, 2003 If I had known that you'd be at C-burg, I would have gone but, I was at My DZ/MAYTOWN -Gant_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzdiva 7 #14 March 10, 2003 Now where else would I be? "It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #15 March 10, 2003 Quotewell, I guess they're called mini-risers. They're the ones most rigs have, I think. I think what he was asking (which would be a better question) is did you have standard 3-rings or the mini 3-rings? (Somebody get Bill Booth in here!) I'd post this in the GnR forum too... good stuff, thanks.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #16 March 10, 2003 Hey, do the Greenies have the power to leave this thread here, and also copy it to the Safety & Training or Gear & Rigging forums?? Because that would be cool. And I think this is an important issue that who knows, might save someone's life. DZDIVA, post some pics! I didn't know you were taking photos when all this was going on. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #17 March 10, 2003 QuoteI'd post this in the GnR forum too... good stuff, thanks OK, I guess I'll just do that. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #18 March 10, 2003 I know in my cutaway which was not high speed thankfully but stable line twists with a bowtie line over it took both hands to pull silver. I can't imagine how hard it would be to cut away with the G forces on top of all that. Thanks for the heads up. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #19 March 10, 2003 Pulling silver? This was about cutting away, not the reserve. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #20 March 10, 2003 Quote We simulated 2 Gs by having a guy who weighed about the same as me hanging onto my back. I'd cut that away even w/o a malfuntion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #21 March 10, 2003 What really sucked is when I'm hanging in the risers with him hanging on my back in front of a room full of skydivers. And he starts whispering "Who's yer daddy..Who's yer daddy.." in my ear. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #22 March 13, 2003 alright you fags: here's some more shit that may save yer lives: From JR in Chambersburg, PA: Yes, all of the housings we used in the course were not capped. They were raw and unfinished. Allof the cables that go into the rigs are capped with an aviation grade rivet that is set with a rivet tool and are heat shrink wrapped. Good question! Bill Booth is the inventor of the three ring and owns relative workshop who build the vector. J.R. Sides Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayCam 0 #23 June 24, 2005 QuoteHow big of a deal would this be on a larger canopy. Say a 160sqft Triathlon loaded at about 1:1? I was told that it can't really spin me up so bad I can't cut away manually, so the inserts aren't that big of a deal. GET THEM! I jumped a student manta loaded at about 0.8 or 0.9 pounds per square foot. Ended up with massive line twists and one arm tangled round the left riser. That was swinging me around pretty hard so I am sure your Triathalon is capable of doing the same thing to you. Anyway point is I couldnt cutaway because of the line twists (note: even WITH steel riser inserts). Anyway dont under estimate how hard it is to cutaway when your canopy isnt deployed as it should be. J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #24 June 24, 2005 QuoteI've never had a cutaway(in the air i mean) but I always practice by using two-handed pulls. 1) you never know how much force it will take & 2) prevents you from pulling out of sequence or say, pulling your reserve rip chord faster than you pull your cutaway handle. (This can happen, remember your reserve pilot chute pops out like a jack-in-the-box, whereas your cables have to be pulled out manually) I will admit this: For the demonstration, I was pulling much slower than I would in real life, so that the guy watching the scale would have a chance to read it. But those ones with line twists without the housings were some hard f&*king pulls. It's questionable whether I'd be able to do a one-handed pull, but my guess is probably not, especially with the line twists AND the 2Gs. I don't have a two-handed pull option. I sure hope a one handed pull is good enough. -Clarification: my arms are too short under harness to reach both to one side, I've tried it before. I'd have to compress the harness that I'm being suspended by which is being pulled apart to try to get both hands over to one side. Ain't gonna work. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salsa_John 0 #25 June 24, 2005 Great post! Thnx for the info. It could save a life or two "You did what?!?!" MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
