Linetwists on reserve

[crotalus01 0]

On Saturday afternoon I had an extremely hard opening that resulted in multiple broken lines and put me on my back in a hard spin. I looked up, saw the lines and immediately cut it away. My freebag came up between my legs and my reserve opened and started to spin me up resulting in 8 complete twists. I landed out in a soybean field about a quarter mile from the dropzone (stood it up too). My question is how often do spinning malfunctions result in reserve linetwists? I gotta say it sucks beyond sucking to get your llast chance out and have an issue (even if its kind of minor)

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Andy_Copland 0]

I think it depends on a lot of factors, did you have an RSL as that what it sounds like unless you pulled silver on your back and all fucked up.

Personally i'd have got my hook knife out, chopped one riser off then held onto it with both hands as i untangle it then fly it in like that making a perfect stand up landing. But im hardcore like that.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[crotalus01 0]

The canopy was a Sabre 1 190. I got it and my freebag back and kept my handles. The canopy had 9 broken lines and a ripped port
Cell 4 had A, C and D broken below the cascades and B actually ripped the attachment off the bottom skin of the canopy
I hope it wears better than it flies (getting a jacket made out of it)

edit to add I had silver halfway out when I saw the freebag going up between my legs so yeah I pulled silver but the RSL beat me

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[phoenixlpr 0]

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...and put me on my back in a hard spin. I looked up, saw the lines and immediately cut it away. My freebag came up between my legs ...

Does your opening position has anything to do with those line twists?

Was your reserve flying stable in twist? Have you got enough time to kick it out?

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My question is how often do spinning malfunctions result in reserve linetwists?

How often do you get line-twist from unstable opening?

I do not suggest to open stable every time if you use your reserve anyway.

Why do you expect a miracle from your reserve? Its not a silver bullet, just another canopy...

[Scrumpot 1]

Sounds very similar to my 1st cut-away years ago. When my reserve opened, I did not even have the "joy" of seeing it inflate above my head, as the twists had my head/chin pinned to my chest! The nice thing about reserves though, even in this situation (usually) is still how stable they will fly, and allow you a nice, leisurely kick-out of the twists, once you get your wits all back about you after something like that, that is.

I have no idea the percentage or statistical #'s for this, but would assume it's not all that uncommon. That said, my latest cut-away was from under such a violent spinning mess (even worse than the 1st, that seemed relatively tame by comparison), yet as I was flung away from it, the reserve inflated smooth, fast and perfectly on heading with no issues at all.

Couldn't "suck beyond sucking" all that bad if yer now here fully able to post about it! Although I can identify with the feeling. Think about that. Your reserve did exactly what it was intended to do. - Save your arse! Chalk it up to experience - - - and don't forget that bottle for your rigger, and BEER for the bonfire NSTIW story.

Welcome to the club.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[peregrinerose 0]

My one chop I had a line twist... I cut away from a stablely flying main with a line over. When the reserve came off my back, it felt weird so I looked over my shoulder to see what was going on in a major duh moment and gave myself the line twist. Nice thing about reserves, even with line twists, they fly really stable. Took no time at all to get out of it.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[crotalus01 0]

Reserve was flying stable as I kicked out the twists. I didnt expect a miracle from my reserve but a few people commented that it was unusual for it to open in linetwists so I wanted to hear other opinions or experiences about spinning cutaways and whether the reserve spun up...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[crotalus01 0]

He will get his bottle this Saturday and this was my secong cutaway but my first high speed malfunction

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Andy_Copland 0]

Did you have an RSL or not?

Says on one post that you cutaway and had a freebag trying to wrap reserve lines around your balls. Then on another you say you kept the handles? RSL or just really fast, no fucking around right then left pull?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

...this was my secong cutaway but my first high speed malfunction.

Wow - Sir "Chops-a-lot"!

In only just 100 jumps. Who's doing your packing? Might wanna do some consideration of how to keep your main more cleanly opening above your head statistically more often than the worry over your reserve - which sounds like it performed as designed.

Only just slightly kidding. Sounds to me like your reserve is there for you when you need it. You just need to get your instances having to need it down now is all.

Ha!

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Scrumpot 1]

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Says on one post that you cutaway and had a freebag trying to wrap reserve lines around your balls. Then on another you say you kept the handles? RSL or just really fast, no fucking around right then left pull?

What's the correlation to having an RSL (or not) and keeping your handles?

I'm just wondering the reasoning behind this question. Please - 'splain?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Andy_Copland 0]

Well lets face it, not everyone with 100 jumps chops with an RSL and gets the silver pulled before the RSL does the job.

I dont think you can say you kept all your handles if silver is left in the housing. I'm not saying do that to people reading btw, always complete your handle pulls.

But the RSL is an important factor in linetwists on the reserve. Im not saying it will cause it but it does add to it if you're unstable at chop time with RSL.

That also doesn't mean "Get rid of the RSL, sacrifice altitude for stability"

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

...but a few people commented that it was unusual for it to open in linetwists...

Its not about a reserve. Any canopy can open in a line twist.
I got lots of line twist from SL jumps on student canopies. I kicked them out and it wasnt a big deal.

I got couple line twist which were flying stable. Most common reason was body position I think. I usually deploy from full flight if I fly a wing suite.

I cut away only one life twist which I could not solve. I was running out of altitude and it is started to dive. I have to check my logbook if I got a live twist on my reserve.

I got some other case where I got 4 lines broken from the right rear groups and I think i had a line twist on my reserve.

There could be a reason why I prefer to have my controlability check done over 600m.

Unstable opening is calling for trouble, reserves are not exception from this either.

[Scrumpot 1]

I still don't get what you are saying. Please bear with me. Maybe I'm dense.

So, if you have an RSL, you're supposed to, or are expected to lose your handles? If you don't have an RSL, you're not?

I just don't get your thinking/logic or the correlation. Again, sorry - maybe I'm dense.

Just for the record, with both of my (2 total in 1,900 jumps) cut-aways, I kept the handles. After pulling them, simply tucked them into my jumpsuit and did from there-on what I had to, with my reserve. The 1st chop I had an RSL, the 2nd one I did not.

So again - what's your correlation? I guess I just don't see your point, and the chance of or concern of how the affect of an RSL on keeping (or causing to lose?) your handles should have absolutely NOTHING to do with one's decision on whether to have an RSL or not.

I've got news for you - If you have an RSL, no matter how "fast" you are - you are NOT "beating" it (to deploying your reserve), I can nearly guarantee you. Obviously, one should still always pull both (as you've said - so we have no argument there), as I too did in my case (and many of others I've seen before and since) - yet when you get down THINKING you've beaten it, take a look at that tell-tale kink in the cable, where (again, I can nearly guarantee) the RSL had already beat you to it.

In either (and any) case though - I still don't see the correlation to having (or not) an RSL, - how that pertains to this jumper either having kept his handles, or not. What are you trying to get at with this question? I'm just curious to understand.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Gary73 10]

Line twists can definitely happen on reserve deployments, especially if you're spinning when it comes out. As noted above, they're rarely a problem. In fact, given that the reserve deployed between your legs, I'd say you got off easy.

Here are my questions:

1. What was your body position when you chopped? A lot of people forget to arch at that point, and are in something like a sitfly position, only with the malfunctioned main holding their torsos up. As soon as that drag goes away, they go into a backflip just as the RSL pulls the reserve pin. Always arch during a cutaway, regardless of what the main is doing.

2. What kind of delay was there between the cutaway and reserve pulls? Some folks seem to think that they should try to beat the RSL. Not so. Always make sure the cutaway handle is completely out before pulling the reserve.

Just a couple of things that folks might want to think about before their next EP review. Y'all do review your EPs, right?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I've got news for you - If you have an RSL, no matter how "fast" you are - you are NOT "beating" it (to deploying your reserve), I can nearly guarantee you. Obviously, one should still always pull both (as you've said - so we have no argument there), as I too did in my case (and many of others I've seen before and since) - yet when you get down THINKING you've beaten it, take a look at that tell-tale kink in the cable, where (again, I can nearly guarantee) the RSL had already beat you to it.

You can beat RSL by only pulling your reserve handle...
It would be nice to know who has started this beating the RSL cr@p.

I don't think that cutting away is the right time for meditation whether I have A or B......
Loosing handles cost money only....fucking up might cost a life...

[Andy_Copland 0]

No correlation.

It was because on his first post he said he cut away then had a freebag between his legs, that makes me think RSL.

Then said he kept all his handles making me think he pulled both and maybe not have an RSL. (as i said, some people dont complete the EP.)

So simply trying to figure out if he had an RSL or not and if that contributed to the linetwists on the reserve

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[crotalus01 0]

Andy I also dont get the question, but to be clear - it was an extremely hard opening, I looked up and saw multiple broken lines and was spinning on my back. One hand at the cutaway the other on silver I pulled the cutaway heard a "ching" and pulled silver. I had it probably halfway out when the freebag came up between my legs. So yes I pulled both and yes I kept my handles. And yes the RSL beat me but not by much.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Andy_Copland 0]

Thats all i wanted to know. When spinning on your back and chopping with an RSL you can induce linetwists. I dont think anyone will disagree with that.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[crotalus01 0]

Well considering I deployed at about 2800' I wasnt even considering getting stable before pulling silver, and to be honest the fact that I have an RSL never even crossed my mind, I did exactly what I was trained and practice. Never even looked at my handles so I guess the fact that I times I touch them multiple times on the way to altitude paid off ...

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Scrumpot 1]

Okay, cool. No worries. My apologies - I misunderstood your original post question, and clearly could not understand from that, what I thought you might possibly be getting at.

It seemed that somehow you were trying to correlate keeping one's handles or losing them, somehow to having an RSL or not. Thanks for clearing that up!

Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[piisfish 140]

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Never even looked at my handles so I guess the fact that I times I touch them multiple times on the way to altitude paid off ...

Don't know how you learned.. Bu I was taught :
Look and grab R
Look and grab L
etc etc...

by not looking, you could grab something else...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[dragon2 2]

I never grabbed anything else in 7 cutaways, didn't look: can't see my handles anyway

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I never grabbed anything else in 7 cutaways, didn't look: can't see my handles anyway

I guess you know really well what you grab.

[AggieDave 6]

It happens. What will really piss you off is line twists on your reserve ride on a tandem. That's a pain in the ass!

Out of 6 chops (4 tandem and 2 sport), 4 were spinning violently. One (the tandem) had linetwists on the reserve. The last one, a Velo 111 loaded at 2.6:1, that was spinning exceptionally violently, did not have linetwists on the reserve.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."