So I am about to give up skydiving...

[windcatcher 0]

yep, today I decided I am 90% sure I should just quit.
I guess some people just aren't meant to skydive, they aren't smart enough, etc.NOT everyone should jump!!!

I got a bigger canopy and jumped my Spectre 190 for the first time yesterday and today, and I didn't have the kind of landings I wanted to. I sold my 170, after getting my brake lines fixed. On my 170, I had a higher WL( DUH!), and it couldn't flare all the way, so I had some hard landings on that canopy. I guess jumping my 170 made me kinda freak about landings, because the tail was pulled down already in full flight, and it wouldn't flare all the way; now jumping my newer, bigger canopy, I thought my landings would change, maybe not.

What's so hard about flaring a canopy?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
I now realize that not everyone is smart enough, left-brained enough to skydive, so I am about to put my gear up for sale soon.
I will miss every wonderful skydiver I have met
I have had some incredible times in this sport, and will have some awesome memories to look back on.edit to add: Thanks to all the amazing people I have met here, in the sport, at boogies, etc. I appreciate every smile that was given to me, every hug and kiss, every jump, every piece of advice, etc.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[nate_1979 9]

I really do still think you should give it a couple more tries... New gear takes a little time to get used to, and a flare can be fixed.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[windcatcher 0]

aaaaaaaah, why do you and people like Chad have to be so positive all the time?!?!??!!
Some of us just don't have the intelligence I guess

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[nate_1979 9]

Well, the first step is to start believing that you can do it, because you can... Once you accept that, the rest will come to you with a little practice and coaching.

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

WOW... u havnt met me yet! I think u should look into coaching or if u already have just practice practice practice. I think later in life u will regret that u gave up on something u love doing. I wouldnt be so hard on yourself. you should know that. uve seen the support that people have given to others in this forum that have said they just cant get it. Hope this at least half way cheers u up and makes u think twice about quitting! I know im new to all of this but i couldnt see myself throwing in the towel when there are so many people to lean on in the skydiving comunty.

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[sundevil777 102]

Just because of trouble landing?

Have you gotten several videos of your landings to diagnose your problem? Many just don't use their wheels (legs) effectively, not putting their feet down under them enough to support weight on touchdown, instead putting them out in front where they can't work.

For some reason I have seen a lot of girls have trouble like this.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[dbattman 0]

If you are not getting full flare either your lines are too long for your size or you are not getting full extension with your arms. Have you spent time playing with the canopy from 13k down? Take it up there and practice flaring. See how the canopy responds. Then take some extra brake line in your hands (consult your staff for the best way to do this- I'm not a big fan of wrapping the line around your hands) and do it some more. This should give you an idea of what the issue could be. A few inches of brake line can make a huge difference. Also check out your stall point- it should be right around full extension or just past it. By full extension I mean both elbows locked and you arer pushing down farther with your shoulders. If it is too high you can stall much easier which is a big no no when you are getting near the hard deck.

Don't give up yet. Seek out a good canopy coach- you probably just have a technique issue to sort out. Try taking this to 'canopy control' forum. Also consider that the Spectre is a seven cell with a different approach profile than a nine cell.

[mrhoop 0]

It is good to stay current. 73 jumps in four years is not staying very current. Jump more often.

[windcatcher 0]

well, not just because of my landings( but MOSTLY), I have done some other stupid stuff in the sport, like pull low, hit the step, etc ( I will refrain from exposing ALL of my stupidity). I don;t expect to be perfect in this sport, yet I don't want to be an idiot and keep making mistakes, and not performing as well as I would like.

Anyways, my bf watched my landings today and saturday, First jump, I flared a little too late, my first jump on my 190; I couldn't run it out all the way, so I fell. Today, when I jumped it for 2nd time, I didn;t flare all the way! Uggggggggggggggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I;ll admit all those landings on my 170 freaked me out, cause I couldn't even flare all the way due to brake lines being 5 inches too short. Still, I think the problem is just me, I SHOULD know how and when to flare properly with 73 jumps!

Mr.hoop--my first jump was when I was 18, did 2 static, took a year off, did a tandem, yr. later do another tandem, then took the FJC again last summer. So, I started jumping 4 years ago, but not really because I started jumping on a regular basis last summer, so most all of my jumps have been within the year

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Rookie120 0]

I am sure you probably have an old timer at your DZ who can break down canopy flight and flying a proper pattern down to micro-steps and he will be very happy to help. I had one of these guys help me with canopy flight when I was fairly green at canopy flight. Ask him to watch a few of your landings and he will now whats going on. I think you just need some good instruction on canopy flight. It doesnt come natural to most people. We need what I like to call "Guidance". Someone to show us the direction we need to go. I wanted to quit when I was having trouble doing RW on big ways. Nothing can mess up your day like taking out a 40 way and having Roger Nelson explain on a huge TV in front of everybody how I screwed up. But then he took me aside and gave me about a 1 hour lesson on swoopin into a formation and docking on bigger ways. All you need in some guidance and you will be fine. For god sake you have under 100 jumps. I'm pushing 800 jumps and I'm still a Rookie "hince to the screen name" and I get information that always helps me out. Well I'm done for now. Hopefully this has knocked down your "%90 I'm gonna quit" to about 20-30 for now. Let us know how things go and if nobody want to help let me know and I will fly to where you are personaly and help as much as I can. I like to travel anyway and just need an excuse to do it. Best of luck.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[AMax 0]

If it is only flare that really concerns you, then get some coaching with video. It you have other serious safety-related issues, then I would not listen to those who convince you to stay in sport. After all, it is your life and your bones. You have done 70+ more jumps that any average person on this planet and nobody should blame you for making a decision to stop.

[windcatcher 0]

Hey Rookie I used to love playing under canopy, but now landing time.... Anyways, I consider myself to be very right brained--emotional, creative ( somewhat), artistic,etc. I'm not good at the scientific, analytical side of things, which I think skydiving is. I just don't know if I have the ability to understand. Though flaring should be a simple concept, why do I have such a hard time?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[calledisrael 0]

i hope this sounds encouraging.. because that's really how i mean it...

thanks windcatcher... i have been discouraged tonight, because i feel just like you seem to, that i am often too emotional and artistic type... and i keep being not very good at this. i have problems with deployment because of a shoulder injury which i think i reaggravated today. i had had a very hard time in aff, and then found a new dz which has totally changed my outlook on jumping... and it seems like everything was starting to go right just in time to go way wrong.

but what helps me from your post is to know that 1. i am not the first skydiver to feel like this, and 2. i know that i really love it... and for me it's still really worth it.

whatever choice you make, i am confident it will be the right one for you. thanks for encouraging me and making me feel not quite so alone in it.

life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.
(helen keller)

[Rookie120 0]

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why do I have such a hard time?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

I ask myself that everytime I splash in the pond. Like I said I think you just need to start at the very begining of canopy control and flight. Try a Brian Germain canopy course. If you want to learn from the best he's it. The old timers on the dz who do rw and fly nice square patterns and have 10 million jumps are great for knowledge also. What size canopy are you jumping now and what is your WL. Maybe you should try a different canopy. But if you think for your saftey that you need to hang it up by all means turn on the beer light. I have seen some of the worse pilots become great divers. They will never get a PRO-Rating but they are safe at the DZ. Thats my .02 worth.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[goofyjumper 0]

Do you know when to hit the brakes when you are driving ar car? Of course you do(or maybe not)! But over time you know when and usually how long it takes to slow down or flare! Look it takes time, if you are willing to give up the sport so soon, then you never wanted to do it in the first place.....you are right, maybe you should not be in the sport.

-----------------
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[windcatcher 0]

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why do I have such a hard time?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHHHH

I ask myself that everytime I splash in the pond. Like I said I think you just need to start at the very begining of canopy control and flight. Try a Brian Germain canopy course. If you want to learn from the best he's it. The old timers on the dz who do rw and fly nice square patterns and have 10 million jumps are great for knowledge also. What size canopy are you jumping now and what is your WL. Maybe you should try a different canopy. But if you think for your saftey that you need to hang it up by all means turn on the beer light. I have seen some of the worse pilots become great divers. They will never get a PRO-Rating but they are safe at the DZ. Thats my .02 worth.

That's just it; I just got a bigger canopy, a spectre 190, and I just put my first 2 jumps on it this weekend. I didn't stand them up, and it's really discouraging. Now that I have a lower WL ( .9), I should be having better landings!!! I am a very safe jumper, but I just can;t get this stupid landing thing down. I don;t want to keep skydiving for years, and keep crashing into the ground
edit to add: Landing a canopy shouldn't be THAT hard, should it?!?!?!

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[RhondaLea 4]

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Some of us just don't have the intelligence I guess

Where in the name of all that is ridiculous did you get the idea that it takes intelligence to skydive?

Some of the dumbest people I know skydive. And some of the smartest don't.

Get a different canopy. Get a few more jumps. If you have other reasons, that's fine, but what you're describing is no reason to quit. It sounds to me like you just need to jump more often.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[Rookie120 0]

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Landing a canopy shouldn't be THAT hard, should it?!?!?!

For some people it can be. When I was taking flying lessons I kept on doing carrier landings. It just took some time and extra flying with my FI chattin in my ear before I got it. It sounds like the spectre isnt working for ya so see if anybody has a sabre and try that with some instruction. It sounds like your not flaring correctly or at the right time.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[waltappel 1]

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yep, today I decided I am 90% sure I should just quit.
I guess some people just aren't meant to skydive, they aren't smart enough, etc.NOT everyone should jump!!!

It is absolute fact that not everyone is meant to skydive, BUT it's not so much a matter of how fast they pickup skills--it is more a matter of safety. Are they putting themselves or others at risk and do they have a genuine respect for the risks of the sport.

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I got a bigger canopy and jumped my Spectre 190 for the first time yesterday and today, and I didn't have the kind of landings I wanted to.

Guess what? It takes a lot more than a couple of jumps on a new parachute before you know how to fly and land it.

While I'm on the topic of flying and landing, I should be very clear that landing is only one part of flying a canopy. Understand very clearly that while you are *landing* a canopy, you are *flying* it. This should be readily apparent if you have watched people doing swoop landings.

It's been quite a while since I have overheard an instructor teaching a low-timer to land a canopy. Back then, it didn't get a whole lot more sophisticated than "when you are on final, faced into the wind, and you get down to the same height as the hangar, slowly bring the toggles down so that the reach your waste just as your feet are touching the ground." Sounds goofy, but on the right student canopy it's not all that bad.

The reality, of course, is that it is an over-simplification. If you want to get a better idea of the dynamics of landing, play with your canopy up high. The whole idea of flaring is to GENERATE LIFT to soften your landing. Those are just meaningless words until you know what LIFT feels like.

Take a jump to learn a bit about your canopy. Open high--at least 8 grand. (Be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you tell the pilot and other jumpers about your opening altitude!!!!) After opening, relax and look around. Find the DZ, figure out whether you are up-wind of the DZ (you'd better be!) and whether you are on the windline to the DZ. The top priority here is to make sure you get back to the DZ, so plan your flight and stay aware of your location relative to the DZ the whole time.

Ok, now for the fun. Take a SLOW 360 degree turn to "clear your airspace", i.e., make sure that no other canopies or aircraft are anywhere close while you are doing your canopy maneuvers.

After verifying that your airspace is clear, make some gentle terms to help you get a feel for how the canopy responds to toggle input.

Next, take one toggle--either one--and BURY IT!!! Go through two or three full turns and then GENTLY raise the toggle to its full flight position. Now do the same with the other toggle.

Ok, here's where you feel what LIFT feels like. Bury a toggle and go through enough rotations (3-5 should be fine) so that you are really starting to pull some G's. It's going to feel a bit uncomfortable, but it does not put you at any undue risk. The purpose of these rotations is to build up a bunch of SPEED. Now, gently raise the toggle so you are back at full flight and then IMMEDIATELY flare your canopy. You should immediately feel kind of like you are being "pushed down in your seat", like being in a evelator that starts going up REALLY fast. THAT, my friend, is LIFT. That is what these hotshot swoopers are playing with. That is why they build up so much speed for landing.

Now that you have marvelled at what LIFT is, gently raise your toggles to a full flight position so that you don't stall your canopy.

What is not so obvious, is that even the biggest, slowest ram air canopy you can imagine is also generating lift to soften those landings. It's a whole lot more subtle, though.

Now for the scary part. From normal full flight, flare your canopy and hold your toggles down as deep as you can. You'll feel the canopy slow down (the wind becomes progressively quieter) and then seems to come to a stop. Then IT HAPPENS--the canopy suddently rocks backwards and you feel like your body is going into a back flip and it feel REALLY, REALLY scary. You've just experienced a STALL. GENTLY raise your toggles to full flight position, and you'll feel much better.

Basically, an airfoil, e.g., your canopy, needs a certain amount of air moving over its surfaces for it to generate lift. When it doesn't have that air (generated by forward speed) it stops generating lift and falls out of the sky.

The weird thing is that your canopy generates its MAXIMUM amount of lift in the instant before the stall when everything seems to stand still.

It's THAT little factoid that you are using to make your life more fulfilling by making beautiful, soft landings.

The whole idea is to make that maximum-lift happen just as your feet are touching the ground.

Sound tricky? IT IS!!! That is why instructors use the over-simplification when they teach you to land a canopy. The real details would overwhelm most people and the over-simplified version actually works pretty well for a properly set-up student canopy.

Don't expect to master landings right away. It takes a while because you need to develop some very finely-tuned senses to tell you when to flare, how fast to flare, etc.

Get some help from someone who jumps the same kind of canopy you do, at about the same wing loadings, and gets the kind of landings you want to make.

(By the way, I left off the rest of the details of the jump. That is because it is something you need to plan ahead of time with your instructor. Plan the jump, then jump the plan.)

More tips:

Practice at altitude.

Relax. It will come to you. Don't stiffen up while learning--it could increase your chances of injury.

Get someone to get video of your landings and critique your technique.

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I sold my 170, after getting my brake lines fixed. On my 170, I had a higher WL( DUH!), and it couldn't flare all the way, so I had some hard landings on that canopy. I guess jumping my 170 made me kinda freak about landings, because the tail was pulled down already in full flight, and it wouldn't flare all the way...

These are normally mutually EXCLUSIVE conditions. Normally, if the tail is pulled down during full flight it means that the toggles are mounted too high on the steering lines. This not only causes the tail to be pulled down during full flight, it causes the canopy to stall more quickly because it SHORTENS the distance the control range of the toggles.

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...now jumping my newer, bigger canopy, I thought my landings would change, maybe not.

The change is not necessarily immediate. Some canopies are easier to land than others, and even that is affected by wing loading. It is your SKILLS that need to change.

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What's so hard about flaring a canopy?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

What's so hard about tying your shoes? NOTHING, after yo learn how!

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I now realize that not everyone is smart enough, left-brained enough to skydive, so I am about to put my gear up for sale soon.
I will miss every wonderful skydiver I have met
I have had some incredible times in this sport, and will have some awesome memories to look back on.edit to add: Thanks to all the amazing people I have met here, in the sport, at boogies, etc. I appreciate every smile that was given to me, every hug and kiss, every jump, every piece of advice, etc.

Ok, now your whining. Shut the hell up and quit feeling sorry for yourself. Read this posting as many times as it takes to understand it. Talk with people that can help you, then go up and do it until you get it right.

And, after writing all this, if I find out that you quit anyway.... Well, just don't let that happen!!!

PM me if you want. and please, oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, no more whining!!!

Walt

[tsampson 0]

Damn, you sound like how I felt a few months ago. I was PLF'ing almost all of my landings, and getting more frustrated with each jump. I was angry with myself, thinking "I should be able to do this by now." I went and got canopy coaching with Scott Miller, and something just "clicked." Now I'm nailing the landings.

I too was jumping a Spectre 170. There was nothing wrong with that canopy, but it just isn't the right canopy for me. I demo'd a 9 cell of the same size, and the difference was amazing. Maybe you should speak to someone far more knowledgeable than me about trying a different canopy, rather than just trying a different wingloading before quitting.

I hope you are able to make a decision that leads you to both peace and happiness. Blue skies.

[shall555 0]

I understand the frustration.

But, I'd ask you to remember that we humans are wired to operate in 2 dimensions: left and right.

The idea of operating in the up-down dimension is completely foreign. We simply don't have any reflexes that help us out in the down direction except "Oh sh**".

So, we have to learn how to deal with it. It's like learning a foreign language.

If you really love it in the sky, you'll get the landings soon enough.

If you'd like an interesting insight into how lift and flare work, try taking a flying lesson ( as in "airplane" ). You'll be able to see and feel the transition from glide to flare to touchdown. Might be worth a shot.

Best,

shall

[Guest]

So you didn't stand up two whole landings give yourself a break. i didn't stand up my first 23! And I'm supposed to be a stud-guy-athlete and so on.

So I'll do the guy thing and offer possible newbie solutions instead of just conversation and here's my .02 - take it with a grain of salt:

1. I don't think you should have your s/o boyfriend as your coach. That may be putting more and different pressures/nerves on your landings. Get one of the "old-timers" with an easy attitude to help you.

2. Get video. Just the couple filmings I got really helped me realize that what I actually experienced and what I THOUGHT I experienced were two completely different things.

3. If you leave, (and yes, obviously its okay if you do, I just don't think you should because you have yet to dial in your landings) I'd miss you in the sport. I mostly lurk but I've enjoyed your postings and web site about AFF and everything. So my .02 is leave if you want, but spend a LOT more than two jumps to get your landings working, then decide again

Also do the obvious things, like having a rigger check out parachute trim lengths etc.

Blue ones
Russ

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[waltappel 1]

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Some of the dumbest people I know skydive. And some of the smartest don't.

it ain't reel nice to tock 'bout us igorant jumpers like that--weze got feelins to.

Walt

[marks 0]

you should come out to skydive the farm sometime, i bet i can help you.

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[sundevil777 102]

The good news...

When you do get it easy on every jump, it is such a beautiful way to end a jump, being able to so softly touch down is the 'coup de grasi...

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am