Sugar-Free Better For You? Food For Thought....

[jumperconway 0]

Welcome to the world of the enlightened! See ya at Spaceland!

[skydivermom 0]

I'm reading a book about natural cures and I'm just trying to learn all I can from any source possible. Do you mean there are side affects from regular sugar that they sell in the store, like refined sugar? I'll agree with you there because I am hypoglycemic and cannot have any refined sugar. It gives me a migrane. However, the truly natural organic sugar does not affect me at all. The truly natural sugar in fruit does not affect me either.

Also, aside from food allergies, what else do peanuts do to you? I imagine the chemically altered, cooked peanuts can create a host of difficulties, but do natural, raw organic peanuts have any adverse affects? I'm just curious.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skydivermom 0]

I love Smart Balance!

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skydivermom 0]

According to a book I'm reading by Kevin Trudeau, natural organic meat cannot give you heart disease. I relaize anyone can write a book but in my opinion this guy really knows his stuff. What causes heart disease and blockages and all that is not cholesterol, it is scarring of the arteries. There are three things that can cause this. 1. Chlorinated water (this is poison) 2. hydrogenated oils or trans fats 3. homogenized dairy products

You can have high cholesterol but if your arteries aren't scarred there is nothing for the cholesterol to attach to and clog them. My grandpa died of a heart attack and his cholesterol was never high so I believe this.

I know this doesn't relate to the sugar-free thing but hopefully it will help someone.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skydivermom 0]

I'm just glad there are others that alread understand and know the truth. Maybe if enough of us get fed up we CAN do something about it. If you have any more information about natural stuff please post it or PM me. I am very interested in getting as much info. as I can. Thank you and if I ever get done with my training I'll be at Spaceland.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[Lindsey 0]

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According to a book I'm reading by Kevin Trudeau, natural organic meat cannot give you heart disease. I relaize anyone can write a book but in my opinion this guy really knows his stuff. What causes heart disease and blockages and all that is not cholesterol, it is scarring of the arteries. There are three things that can cause this. 1. Chlorinated water (this is poison) 2. hydrogenated oils or trans fats 3. homogenized dairy products

You can have high cholesterol but if your arteries aren't scarred there is nothing for the cholesterol to attach to and clog them. My grandpa died of a heart attack and his cholesterol was never high so I believe this.

I know this doesn't relate to the sugar-free thing but hopefully it will help someone.

All I'm gonna say is that is PURE bologna! The guy may *seem* like he knows what he's talking about, but my bet is he has NO medical education. Scarring of the arteries begins with cholesterol build-up. There are other mechanisms of arterial damage, but cholesterol deposition is primary in the VAST majority of humans. There's MOUNTAINS of research that this fella is absolutely ignoring (or doesn't have a solid enough knowledge base to understand). If you want to believe, then go ahead, but he's dangerous if that's what he's selling to people.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skydivermom 0]

Uh, it's not just Keven Trudeau. My father-in-law who's been a heart patient for several years has had two of the top cardiologists tell him the same thing and they are not trying to sell him anything. He has actually eliminated much of his problem because of this knowledge.

I don't know if everything Trudeua is saying is "bologne" or not, but I'm gonna read the book and do some research before I DECIDE that...and I've already been taking some of the natural remedies HE suggests and have been doing much better. I really don't care if other people think his book is a crock or not, I just know what has worked for ME. He didn't come up with the artery scarring thing all by himself, he has "mountains and mountains" of research himself that you can look at on his website www.naturalcures.com.

Cholesterol attaches itself to the arteries BECAUSE they are scarred. Otherwise how can people have high cholesterol that doesn't build up? Just because he doesn't have any medical training doesn't mean he can't be knowledgable about medical facts. I know that vitamin C is a cure for scurvy but I don't have any medical training.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[jumperconway 0]

Here Here ! Yea fuckin ha! Fuck the norm in the FDA here is a ton of info out there in the natural area! Main stream medicine doesn't wont to listen!!

[Lindsey 0]

You're absolutely wrong if you think "mainstream medicine" doesn't want to listen. There are many natural remedies that we recommend to our patients pretty routinely. Others we don't, either becuase the research just isn't there or because the research shows that those either don't work or are harmful. Rather than believing that the medical community isn't interested (because we are) I believe that there are people who are SO anti-medical establishment for one reason or another that they are absolutely unwilling to accept that we haven't all taken an oath to follow the conspiracy. That's what boggles me. Look at ALL of the physicians, and (more importantly) the scientists in medical fields who dedicate themselves to finding the answers to health problems. If you REALLY believe that ALL of these people are hiding something from the public, then that's a different problem.

I think it's wonderful to do your own research. But pay attention to the credentials of the people whose work you are reading. Credentials are VERY important unless you're looking for a witch doctor.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Cudlo 0]

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You're absolutely wrong if you think "mainstream medicine" doesn't want to listen. There are many natural remedies that we recommend to our patients pretty routinely. Others we don't, either becuase the research just isn't there or because the research shows that those either don't work or are harmful. Rather than believing that the medical community isn't interested (because we are) I believe that there are people who are SO anti-medical establishment for one reason or another that they are absolutely unwilling to accept that we haven't all taken an oath to follow the conspiracy. That's what boggles me. Look at ALL of the physicians, and (more importantly) the scientists in medical fields who dedicate themselves to finding the answers to health problems. If you REALLY believe that ALL of these people are hiding something from the public, then that's a different problem.

I think it's wonderful to do your own research. But pay attention to the credentials of the people whose work you are reading. Credentials are VERY important unless you're looking for a witch doctor.

Peace~
linz

Friend of mine had a beautiful baby girl. Unfortunatly, she was very ill. Doctor after doctor had no idea what was wrong with her. The last doctor wanted to do exploratory surgery on an infant. Wanting to avoid that they took her to see a natural medicine "doctor". Naturalist tells them she is lactose intolerant. Changed her diet, all better. Yep... credentials bring you sooo much.

_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[Lindsey 0]

Hey, Kathleen....

Cholesterol again and scarring of the arteries. Like we've said, there are things that damage arteries....a big example is smoking....and cholesterol DOES deposit in those damaged areas. No doubt about that. BUT there is no reliable way of seeing damage in the arteries or knowing if it's there.

What we DO know is that we have not seen an LDL level at which lowering LDL cholesterol does not decrease heart attack risk in a linear fashion. Studies so far include (I believe) LDL down to 70.....and the relationship to decreased incidence of heart attack is still linear. We haven't seen the relationship even start to flatten out yet.

That's measurable. And there are definitely people (as demonstrated in a study like that) who have low cholesterol and still have heart attacks. There's also the issue of HDL cholesterol which we believe may pose a greater risk to people if too low than LDL does if too high.

So THAT's the problem. We know what's happening to people's arteries as their cholesterol increases. There is no doubt about the relationship. These other factors, though they may contribute, are much smaller contributors and do not show nearly as significant effect. That's why I say what the fella says is dangerous. (That and claiming that "organic" meat doesn't raise cholesterol....that's just incorrect).

And Cudlo....it's hard to imagine "doctor after doctor" missing lactose intolerance. That would be top of the differential because lactose intolerance is so common. That's not excusable. BUT, like in anything else, there are some crappy doctors out there. I still say....it's great to do your research. The more educated you are the better off you are. If you're gonna read up on lactose intolerance or whatever, I still say that for the most accurate information, read scientific articles by researchers in medical fields.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[AlexCrowley 0]

Wow weird. Just as I was talking on another thread about the dangers of Google and here we are on the Aspartame kick again.

When this circulated several years ago it was resoundingly rejected and debunked wholesale by independent research (the research quoted in your info above is actually taken out of context if you read the entire paper), and the FDA/governments of Canada, UK, France and several other countries. Canda's study was interseting in that it followed several thousand people over many years.

Somewhere around here I have something I wrote that collected all the research, but anyone can easily find it all online. It all started with one email talking about the dangers. If I find it and anyones interested I'll PM it to whomever wants it. It's all available through Google if you have spare couple of hours to read through everything at some point.

This is almost as funny as the anti-Splenda stuff - which is where poeple start arguing about its chemical structure being chlorine and a carcinogen.

Bad science drives me nuts.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[riddler 0]

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Also, aside from food allergies, what else do peanuts do to you? I imagine the chemically altered, cooked peanuts can create a host of difficulties, but do natural, raw organic peanuts have any adverse affects? I'm just curious.

Most nuts are rarely, truly "raw". If they're not heated to make shelling easier, then they're salted, roasted, or something. In the case of peanuts, they are boiled or roasted.

Here's a few things to research on peanuts:

1. Peanuts are probably not a natural food. They are thought to originate from South America, but as no fossil records exist, they were potentially the result of hybridization by man. This is significant, if you believe, as I do, in evolution, and our bodies' adaptation to natural foods over very long periods of time. If it's not a natural food, it may not be something our bodies can fully process. And unless your ancestory is Ashaninka, Wai Wai, or one of the original South American tribes, then your genetic line has only really been exposed to peanuts for the last few hundred years.

2. Most peanuts are stored prior to shipping, and are susceptible to fungus, two of which combine to create aflatoxin, a natural, but potentially dangerous poison. Concentrations are relatively low in the US, but some people are much more susceptible to it's effects. Definitely don't eat peanuts when travelling to third-world countries, as cases of aflatoxin poisoning are much more common. Additionally, aflatoxin is a known carcinogen.

3. Americans get about half their dose of peanuts in the form of peanut butter. Taking any food and compressing it (in this case, by grinding), compounds the effects of the food. Eating a tablespoon of peanut butter, which by law requires 90% peanuts, is the equivalent of eating a LOT of peanuts. It takes about 850 peanuts to make one 18 ounce jar of peanut butter. I've heard people talk about eating half a jar in one setting

I'm not trying to scare people away from peanuts. Obviously, millions of americans eat peanuts every day, and most have no problems with them. But I do encourage people to research and understand the foods they eat. Every person on the planet will have side effects from some foods - it's a good idea to listen to your body and also know that certain foods have risk. If my family were susceptible to cancer, or if I had a low immune system, I would avoid peanuts as much as possible.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[RhondaLea 4]

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You're absolutely wrong if you think "mainstream medicine" doesn't want to listen.

I've had good doctors (well, okay, one), and I've had bad doctors (all the rest).

I have spent most of my life with a whole lot of wonky symptoms--both mental and physical--because the medical community did not listen. I was even diagnosed with MS because with all those MRIs and CAT scans and the rest of the tests and referrals, my doctor just couldn't put his finger on what could be causing all those symptoms. The truth of the matter was that he thought I was crazy.

At that point, I became my own doctor, made my own diagnosis, and found a physician, who, although he looked at me real funny and rolled his eyes, went ahead and ordered the fucking thyroid panel I asked for.

He stopped rolling his eyes when the test results came back. I had a very high TSH and--surprise, surprise--anti-thyroid antibodies. I was, at that time, 35, and I had been symptomatic for hypothyroidism for 20 years and symptomatic for Hashimoto's thyroiditis for 7 years.

Now it's twelve years later, and I am still fighting the medical community, although my current endo is amenable to experimenting a little as long as I don't suppress my TSH, which is really the only thing that makes me feel okay.

As to sugar and artificial sweetners: artificial sweetners cause blood sugar to rise just as does sugar. Unrefined sugar (dried cane juice) contains chromium and other minerals which help prevent blood sugar spikes. Sugar is better than artificial sweetners, by a long shot, but only if used in moderation. We simply use too much sweetner, period.

I use stevia extract (which has its own issues, so do not take this as an endorsement--I use it because I like it) in my tea. Other than that, I rarely use sweetners at all because I'm hypoglycemic (as a direct consequence of hypothyroidism), and unless I'm very careful, the resulting insulin spike makes me very sick.

I believe you if you say you are a caring medical professional, but caring medical professionals have not been my experience, and the lack thereof has has done lasting damage to my life.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[skydivermom 0]

Linz,

I do apologiize for getting so defensive. I should not have done so. There are some things in your last post that I was unaware of and that are very interesting. Even though I am gung-ho about natural remedies, I am not anti-conventional medicine. I am just about prevention and looking at alternative methods. There are some great doctors who are open to the natural stuff and I really don't think all docs and medical people are involved in the conspiracy that the FDA and FTC are, and I do believe there is one. I have had some personal experiences of my own and lost a friend and a dear mother-in-law to cancer. These have impacted me greatly to not take one person's word (including Mr. Trudeau), but to see for myself.

I'm not sure about organic meat causing heart disease as I haven't done any research on that, but I would wager that it is healthier than the chemical-filled meat we buy at the grocery stores. I would encourage you to read his book cover to cover. You may not agree with everything (or anything) the man says but it is very interesting.

That's one thing I love about these forums, you learn something new every day.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[AlexCrowley 0]

Douglass is an opinionated gentleman, unfortunately he's also been wrong on several other things.

I suffer from a chronic form of a disease Dr Douglass states does not exist (even though it's been recognized for over 100 years), even in the face of mountains of physical evidence and a constantly growing body of publicly available peer reviewed published research he maintains a position of 'they're all lying and its a conspiracy by drug companies to make more money'.

I, and many people like me, are unable to function without treatments and medications available for my 'fantasy' condition. His statistical analysis is woefully inaccurate, his level of knowledge of available research out of date by decades, his undertanding of the conditions history non-existent.

Reading his work briefly I do like his approach on philosophical issues, I think his grasp of medical and scientific information is sorely lacking.

Asparthame, Rather than hoping you'll spend the 2 - 4 hours of research I went through when trying to find out the truth I'll point you here: http://doesaspartamekill.iwarp.com http://www.aspartametruth.freeservers.com/

Both these sites link to a great amount of the research quoted and puts it into context (the mice research paper included). In fact, a cursory moment of critical thinking with access to Google will bring up a great deal of scientific information on Aspartame and the misinformation out there.

As stated, anyone with an open mind can review the information presented above and draw their own conclusions. As someone who ingests large amounts of diet sodas you can be damn sure I investigated it thoroughly after an initial kneejerk reaction of 'ARGH Im GONNA DIE!' was followed by 'ummm this isnt really logical' and 'I'll have another diet soda please'.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Cudlo 0]

Im not saying there isn't some accuracy in western medicine. However, there is a ridiculous amount of misdiagnosis in western medicine. A friend of mine's mother died from being misdiagnosed and thus mistreated. My sister was diagnosed with lung cancer, then a couple hours later after she had plenty of time to freak out about it, was informed she had pneumonia. Then a couple weeks later was told she had ovarian(sp?) cancer. She went to ALOT of doctors to get opinions on what to do with this cancer. Most just wanted to rip out all of her plumbing. 1 or 2 just wanted to take out what had been effected. This was a couple years ago. My niece turns 1 year old this month and is the most beautiful little girl I have ever seen. I'm adopted, can you guess why? Because the painkiller given to my grandmother was later found to cause severe damage in the baby. My (adopted)mother went through premature ovarian failure in high school because of it. Wait... come to think of it. I am saying there is a shitload of inaccuracy in western medicine. All the "research" if you can call it that done by western medicine is only accurate until a couple years down the line when it learns it fucked up. But before the realization of fucked upedness hits, people have already suffered, and even died as a direct result of it.

Obviously, these experiences are not the norm. But, where does the medical community draw the line for acceptable levels of bad doctors using bad research that harm and kill patients?

_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[Lindsey 0]

Obviously, these experiences are not the norm. But, where does the medical community draw the line for acceptable levels of bad doctors using bad research that harm and kill patients?

The bad doctoring that you're talking about is bad doctoring....not bad research. There's no excuse for missing lactose intolerance. There's no excuse for telling someone he has lung cancer without a pathologist examining a biopsy.

My personal experiences with physicians have been good. A very close friend of mine, though, was misdiagnosed with GERD when he had 5 coronaries blocked. I do wish there were fewer mistakes in medicine. I hope to minimize those in my own practice. But despite those mistakes, the RESEARCH that we have, and our knowledge base is by far superior to what you find in the health food stores. I'll stand by that. Doctors can choose to use the knowledge we have to be good doctors or not. Doctors can choose to care about their patients and take time with them or not. Doctors can be mindful of their patients or not. But that is a different issue than where our knowledge base comes from.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skydivermom 0]

What about the research done by homeopathic doctors and holistic doctors? These are professional, educated doctors that treat patients without drugs and surgery. Most of their patients come to them when they get frustrated with conventional, prescription medicines and come away in far better shape. Drugs and surgery absolutely have their place, and we do need them, but they are way overused these days.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[AlexCrowley 0]

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/homeopathy/

"In the United States, training in homeopathy is offered through diploma programs, certificate programs, short courses, and correspondence courses. Also, homeopathic training is part of medical education in naturopathy.e Most homeopathy in the United States is practiced along with another health care practice for which the practitioner is licensed, such as conventional medicine, naturopathy, chiropractic, dentistry, acupuncture, or veterinary medicine (homeopathy is used to treat animals).

Laws about what is required to practice homeopathy vary among states. Three states (Connecticut, Arizona, and Nevada) license medical doctors specifically for homeopathy. "

So, very little regulation, very little standardized training (except by coincidence). In addition, independent research into homeopathy has produced contradictory results leaving the door open to further study. In the UK a well known debunker of homeopathy just finished some research that showed that one of the basic claims of homeopathy: water memory, did appear to exist. This is in direct conflict with previous studies which showed no such phenomena existed.

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/homeoa~1.htm James Randi who doesnt believe in anything whatsoever. (I love skeptics). However, this page has a great deal of links to many pages discussing homeopathy. I really like Quackwatch for it's content (linked off the page). Lots of great info.

I think homeopathy needs far more investigation to clear up the contradictions and i would imagine some form of standards and regulations might be useful if it ever wants to gain credibility.

If you could point me at the research I'd like to take a look at it.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Lindsey 0]

I think the problem with reviewing research done by Homeopaths is that any meaningful research is virtually (if not totally) non-existent.

I also think that Homeopaths DO have some good advice to give to people about things that are relatively minor....often the things that physicians pull our hair out over. For example....hypertension....when people are in the early stages of hypertension, we recommend (most of us) changes in diet, exercize, and in general healthy lifestyle changes. The people who are interested in following those recommendations are few and far between. A year later, their hypertension is worse, and we prescribe medications. Most still WON'T follow recommendations to adjust the way they live, and a year later, they're on 2 or 3 medications for their hypertension.

There are SOME people who are willing to make changes. Some people are motivated to live a healthy lifestyle. I'd bet that MOST of the people who see Homeopaths are in this group. They're not the people who are unwilling to make changes because they are interested in taking control of their health. With this crowd, you'll probably find a lot of people who are happier and healthier when they find ways to live healthily and head off other health problems with basically good advice from homeopaths.

Then there's the other group....that WE see....who have been to the homeopaths, but their problems are a little too big for them to handle. They show up at our clinics in hypertensive crisis (on the verge of a stroke) because the advice they were given was that they didn't need medication for this problem. Or their blood sugar has them in DKA because a homeopath told them that they could control their diabetes with diet and exercize. We see these people regularly.

I think that there is a place for homeopaths, and I think that basically they give decent advice. BUT the research on natural remedies is VERY scant. That that HAS been done has been done by medical researchers. Some has been found to be helpful. Others have not. Some has been found to be harmful. Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it won't kill you.

I think that homeopaths are a decent resource for healthy people--wanting to stay healthy, and avoid everyday threats to their health. What I see a lot of, though, is people in natural medicine fields making a KILLING off of books and the like that have NO foundation (and are often contradictory) to scientific knowledge. They're simply getting rich off of whatever advice is selling....at the expense of people's health. Now if a physician tried to sell some of that advice, he/she'd be stripped of a license without hesitation. But since it's a person without any significant oversight, then they can get away with writing just about anything, without consequence, despite the adverse effects to people's lives. Then because they're "alternative" they have an immediate following. Blows me away sometimes....

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Cudlo 0]

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The bad doctoring that you're talking about is bad doctoring....not bad research.

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Because the painkiller given to my grandmother was later found to cause severe damage in the baby.

Before I continue, let me clarify my statement since I think it was too vague. The pain killer she was given was specifically be given to pregnant mothers. If you want I can ask what the specific drug was, but she did tell me that a large portion of the mothers who were given this drug, had children who suffered medical difficulty.

I would have to say ALOT of bad research went into that drug. From my perspective, the reality of modern western medicine is that its just a business. Its all about the money. Just like any other business, products and procedures that havnt been properly researched/tested will be released to the general public in the interest of profit.

_________________________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." - Kierkegaard

[Lindsey 0]

There was a time when we didn't know that Thalidomide would cause birth defects too. What we're talking about NOW is, not research about physiology and pathology, but research about medications. Here's a big problem we have in this area (besides drug companies....that's a different issue).

In testing medications for efficacy and safety, there are several stages of testing. Early there's in vitro testing, then animal testing. When medications pass these early stages of testing, then they are approved for clinical trials, in which they're tested on people. In the clinical trials, the people chosen to receive these medications fit very stringent criteria regarding health, age, ability to take medictions as prescribed, motivation, and lots of other factors. After a medication passes this level and is approved for use, THEN we expect any other problems to be apparent in the next couple of years. This is because 1) there are a lot more people using the medication, so problems are more readily apparent and 2) the people using it no longer fit into that very specific group.

I don't know what the medication was that your grandmother took, but that is not an uncommon story. Any medication that was put on the market and later "black boxed" has caused similar problems. My position on new medications is to use them VERY judiciously for quite some time, until their safety is better known.

Peace~
linz

Quote

Quote

The bad doctoring that you're talking about is bad doctoring....not bad research.

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Because the painkiller given to my grandmother was later found to cause severe damage in the baby.

Before I continue, let me clarify my statement since I think it was too vague. The pain killer she was given was specifically be given to pregnant mothers. If you want I can ask what the specific drug was, but she did tell me that a large portion of the mothers who were given this drug, had children who suffered medical difficulty.

I would have to say ALOT of bad research went into that drug. From my perspective, the reality of modern western medicine is that its just a business. Its all about the money. Just like any other business, products and procedures that havnt been properly researched/tested will be released to the general public in the interest of profit.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[skydivermom 0]

The research on natural remedies is possibly scant because the FDA and FTC don't want us to have this information. These groups are about protecting the profits of the drug companies.

You said that doctors are stripped of their license if they try to give advice and say some of the stuff that the promoters of the natural remedies do. You also said that those promoting natural remedies can say whatever they want virtually without any consequenses. Perhaps you should tell Kevin Trudeau that because his book has been censored by the FDA and FTC and he is dealing with a lot of consequences for speaking the truth about prescription drugs. These drugs are more dangerous than the diseases they are supposed to cure and even the FDA knows that.

Yes of course just because something is natural doesn't mean it won't kill you. There are natural mushrooms that are poinsonous. But prescription drugs kill people as well. I know this is a controversial subject, but I can speak from personal experience that natural remedies have worked much better for ME than prescription drugs. Does that mean I intend to self-diagnose and self-medicate? Absolutely not!! I just believe in prevention and using the brain that God gave me. Prescription drugs, as I've said before, do have their place, but so do natural remedies!

There are good and bad doctors that practice conventional medicine. I can say the same for the ones who practice natural medicine. My logical conclusion to all this is that if a treatment is not working, DON'T CONTINUE WITH IT AND EXPECT A DIFFERENT RESULT! Try something else.

AND, science is not better than nature!

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[RhondaLea 4]

I urge anyone who wants to self-treat with herbs to obtain a copy of this book:

Link to Commission E Monographs at Amazon.com

There are other good books about alternative treatment available out there, but they are hard to find if you don't know something about alternative medicine to start. This books is a very good start.

I believe the FDA has a database also whoops! no, not the FDA:

Agricultural Research Service-Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb