skydiving helmets....why so expensive?

[justinhawxhurst 0]

Where you going with that answer Pro Tec is made in China.

[tetra316 0]

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If so whats the point of manufacturing them? Looks? If so why doesn't a skydiving just start a brand that looks good with no protectin and half the price. They would take over the market. Helmets are not rocket science to make. So many complain about the price. I say quit complaining or do something. No?

Laws of supply and demand. Skydiving specific helmets will always be more expensive. The market is tiny compared to the market for protecs. Think skiing, skateboarding, biking etc. That's why protecs are a lot cheaper. Sure someone could make a skydiving helmet and sell it at half price but realistically the market is still tiny in skydiving and that manufacturer will take a loss. No one is going to produce something and sell it for a loss, at least not in the long term.

By the way I think this was already covered in previous posts.

[justinhawxhurst 0]

Good stuff I just like the dramazone and everyone who is in the office not jumping and with their great opinions. God I love going out jumping. Oh ya it is night in europe so done jumping. Be back for more tomorrow after jumping.

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

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How much is your head worth?

That's not really applicable here though. A $45 Protec will offer much better protection compared to a lot of the $200 skydiving 'hair holders'...

As far as I'm concerned if you take a hard shot to the head from the ground or a tree or something of the sort it doesn't matter what type of helmet you're wearing you're pretty much screwed. If its just getting kicked in the head in freefall well then either type would probably protect you.

[DougH 270]

Thanks for sharing your expert opinion.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

I haven't seen anything that proves me right, but I also haven't seen anything that proves me wrong. Prove me wrong.

[justinhawxhurst 0]

It is always entertaining. You either want the gear or you dont if you dont want to spend money dont. All sports are expensive when your life body and mind are on the line. Go cheap you get cheap you buy from larg companies you can get better prices as they sell more goods. You want the name from a small company you will have to pay more. Asking on a forum why a helmet is expensive you will get the same as why is a top end sports car expensive. Exclusive companies that do not sell that much product need to get money to cover the cost to make and market. Manufacturing in this case isd not the expensive part it is the marketing and lack of sales. Blue skies have fun jumping or writing.

[DougH 270]

Your car example doesn't hold up here...

An Audi S4 performs and handles better than the less expensive Honda Civik.

In this case if you are using impact protection as your measure of performance your cheaper product, the Pro-tec, has far superior performance compared to your 250 dollar bonehead helmet.

This doesn't really enforce your point, if you even have one at all.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[mrbiceps 0]

those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

[AggieDave 6]

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those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

The issue isn't plastic or carbon fiber, its about the kind of padding and the thickness of the padding. Ever notice how rated motorcycle helmets are pretty thick?

For a large majority of skydivers, they won't really need the real protection unless they land off and crash, have a low turn or are in a plane crash (or some similarly disastrous situation).

For me its because of the speeds I reach while swooping. If I'm really low the helmet won't mean a thing for me. However, if I crash out after planing out, the actual protection and the face protection is important. This was proven to me while wearing my Mindwarp a few months ago. I ran out of pond while doing a ghost rider and crashed really hard on my face and left shoulder while still traveling in the 40-45mph range. Luckily I wasn't injured, I was only hurt. Before the next weekend I had a better helmet.

The Mindwarp cost quite a bit, nearly $200. The pro-tec cost about $80 shipped. Sure the Mindwarp looks cool, but the pro-tec offers real protection for my chosen style of skydiving.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[iamsam 0]

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those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

there are numerous posts on DZ.com that say 'those plastic pro tech ones' will protect you better than a carbon fibre. throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it.

but what do I know

[danielcroft 2]

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those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

Beware: long slightly OT, I'm a noob at skydiving but not at motorcycling.
In the case of motorcycle helmets, a stiffer shell can actually be worse depending on the accident. A stiffer shell (such as CF) doesn't absorb as much of the impact force as a more flexible shell & may actually break. In breaking it would dissipate some of the energy of the impact but obviously not be that useful if you were still bouncing around. Recent testing by some magazines of various helmets showed that, in accidents considered to be "normal", that some of the $90 helmets actually outperformed the $700 helmets. The idea was that the cheaper helmets were DOT approved but not SNELL (different standard for crash protection/energy transfer), the main difference between the standard being multiple impacts on the exact same point for SNELL meaning that the SNELL helmets had much stiffer shells. What this actually does is transmit *more* energy to your head on the initial impact but will withstand multiple impacts on the same point better. The idea of a "normal" accident is a little odd but basically, the theory is that you lowside your bike and slide down the road. You may bump your head (helmet) on the ground but you're not having multiple extreme impacts on the same point. I'm not saying that these are necessary accurate assumptions but the findings based on those assumptions are not only interesting but relevant in the case of skydiving helmets IMO.

In my (very limited) experience, skydiving helmets are either CF with very little padding or Pro-tec style helmets with a plastic shell & lots of padding. There are variations of course but the CF helmets aren't going to offer much in the way of give. The real point is the amount of energy transferred to your head from an impact will probably be less with a Pro-Tec style heavily padded helmet than a very stiff CF helmet with no padding. Testing would need to be done to confirm this but we're not talking about black & white here, there's a continuum of injury that I personally think would be more effectively prevented by Pro-Tec style helmets.

I'm no engineer & I'm remembering this from reading these articles a little while ago so I may have some terminology wrong but I think the point is clear.

For the record, I have a military Fairwind: http://www.unfeathered.com/mifawli.html

*** I'm not an instructor or an experienced skydiver so talk to someone that knows before taking my advice/comments to heart ***

[mjosparky 4]

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those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

And you probably look pretty cool in your $225 carbon fiber catch me kiss me cookie helmet. Hell it even comes with 2 pockets for audibles.

The problem is it is little more than a fashion statement. It is not tested or certified by any recognized testing agency that I know of.

The Protec on the other hand is tested and certified by a number of agencies depending on the sport it is designed for. They are also used by several SecOps teams for some insertion jumps

http://www.pro-tec.net/bike/main.html

http://www.pro-tec.net/skate/main.html Click on Technology on both sites.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[DougH 270]

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those plastic pro tech ones are crap if u ask me. No way i put my head in one of those. How much is your head worth?? i just brought cookie carbon fibre for $225.

We didn't ask you. But since you decided to share, exactly what *information* are you using the determine that your Cookie helmet will offer more protection. Just maybe you shouldn't offer opinions on saftey gear that aren't backed up with actual information.

The plastic "crap" pro-tec will do a much better job protecting your brain than your carbon fiber Cookie will because of the padding and its over all design.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[justinhawxhurst 0]

I was not useing the car example for the protection side but the supply/ demand to price. read the post before mine and you will see that as well as my post never said the sports car out performes anything.

s/d=$£ usefull for distribution

[LouDiamond 1]

Since this conversation has moved to the safety aspect of helmets and there seems to be some confusion on what constitutes a protective helmet, no matter what it's intended application might be, I thought I'd chime in. I've posted a good deal of information on this subject( a search on "helmets" will bring it up) before as it always seems to come up every now and again for good reasons.

As for actual standards in the helmet industry, as has been mentioned, the Pro-tec is widely used and it can be and is far more protective than any of the skydive specific helmets currently out there. There is an upgrade liner for the Pro-Tec that makes it far safer offered by Oregon Aero that is still cheaper than a common skydive helmet. While it's far from sexy or cool, the Prot-tec and it's variants are one of the best choices for skydiving if impact protection is a concern. Since we are basically talking about a helmet that falls into the bicycle/skate/snow board category of helmets, it would help to understand how they are measured with in the industry for safety. A good deal of easy to digest and understand info can be found HERE.


Helmet technology is still elvolving. All you have to do is open Popular Mechanics/Science to see some of the latest things being looked at for impact protection. With that said, I have been working with a skydiving helmet maker to try and implement making helmets that still look like typical skydiving helmets but actually offer some impact protection and not break the pocket book. It's easier said than done but I think the technology is coming that will make this an eventuality.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Ion01 2]

A lot of good discussion here. I have to say it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend a twice as much money if there is actually less protection.

[Andy9o8 2]

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As of this morning, Fox News is reporting a quote from the Russian PM that states the Georgian Republic no longer exists.

Even the cheap pro-tecs are much better for taking a good hit then any of the skydiving specific helmets you can buy.

That decides it. I'm buying the ProTec Yeltsin model.

[Zeemax 0]

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How much is your head worth?

That's not really applicable here though. A $45 Protec will offer much better protection compared to a lot of the $200 skydiving 'hair holders'...

As far as I'm concerned if you take a hard shot to the head from the ground or a tree or something of the sort it doesn't matter what type of helmet you're wearing you're pretty much screwed. If its just getting kicked in the head in freefall well then either type would probably protect you.

I wear a helmet in skydiving for more than just the risk of taking a kick in free fall, and for that reason if i'm not jumping cameras, i'll wear the best protection i can. For me, that's a pro tec.

For those thinking the $200 helmet will provide better protection, that's your call.

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[Chubba 0]

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And you probably look pretty cool in your $225 carbon fiber catch me kiss me cookie helmet. Hell it even comes with 2 pockets for audibles.

The problem is it is little more than a fashion statement. It is not tested or certified by any recognized testing agency that I know of.

Give Cookie a break, they make excellent products.

I agree, and the sticker even states that they offer NO protection at all. That being said, I bought a Cookie Rok helmet and I believe it will definitely offer protection against knocking your head on exit / knocks in freefall... little shakeups. If you have any sort of "crash" impact, the thing is going to split straight open.

Absolutely orgasmic in terms of comfort.

[NickDG 23]

>>skydiving helmets....why so expensive?
In the early days when helmets were first making a comeback, which I hated because I kind of trusted bare or frappe headed jumpers more, I watched Bonehead and Hunter Helmet first start up.

Their early production helmets may have been a couple of hundred bucks but the very first helmets they built cost them thousands of dollars in real estate, materials, trial and error, and sweat & worry. I saw fifty or so helmets in the dumpster out back of Bonehead's place when they first started. Those two guys took a chance and put every dime they had into making a go of it.

It's like the pharmaceutical companies. A pill cost 12 cents, except for the first one. That one costs 120 million dollars . . .

But you can still, look less like a dork, and buy a frappe hat for a hundred bucks . . .

NickD

[mnealtx 0]

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But you can still, look less like a dork, and buy a frappe hat for a hundred bucks . . .

NickD

Having a bunch of foam penises running up your head is looking less like a dork?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NickDG 23]

Yes . . . !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NickD

[jumpflorida 0]

I have noticed that a key factor has not been addressed here relating to alternative helmets. The ability to see and use emergency handles must be of primary concern.