How to save money on gas

[Hooknswoop 19]

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"funny" to see you guys complain about gas prices.. you should try pay the price we has arround here..

Double what you are paying and see if you complain. Even if we are lower, this much a price increase still sucks.

This brings up the question, how do europeans deal with such high gas prices? What offsets the higher cost? Higher wages? Less driving? What?

Derek

[SpeedRacer 1]

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7. Drive slower. You can save 10-15% by driving at 55mph instead of 75mph.

Is this part still true? I had heard that this is no longer as true with modern engines.

Speed Racer
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[ReBirth 0]

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I like the motorcycle idea, way ahead of you. Of course this winter may be an issue.

The last motorcycle I had I did manage to ride year round with exception to the snow days. Just had to be a bit more alert after those snow days from the sand that was put down on the road. It can be done. It's cold, but doable.

Ditto. You can wear enough clothes to be warm with one exception, the hands, they're tricky.

[AndyMan 7]

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This brings up the question, how do europeans deal with such high gas prices? What offsets the higher cost? Higher wages? Less driving? What?

Less driving, better trains - both intercity and commuter lines is the key part. More walking and bicycle use plays in, too.

What's interesting is that because gas in Europe is taxed so much more, the changes in the price of oil has a muted effect. While the price of gas in the states has doubled, it's only gone up incrementally in Europe because tax plays such a big part of the cost.

The implications of that are interesting. Since the increase is incremental, people aren't noticing it as much as they are in the states. That means that people aren't trying to cut back as much, so demand in Europe has little chance of ever declining.

Fortunately, demand per person in Europe is already pretty low - so it's not a big deal. It's just an interesting artifact of how taxes can distort a good market. This isn't always true. Taxes can often "fix" a broken market, depending on how they're set up.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Ashtanga 0]

Some dumb bastage stole my Trek bike this weekend. I usually just rely on taxis and our rapid transit system. I think I will probably use the RTS more often now though.

[skycat 0]

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bill, one thing I really admire you for is your energy conservation mindedness. I got a lot out of your post. I went out to REI yesterday and bought this... see pic. It's a k2 attack 2.0. disc brakes, fully suspended, nice for my overweight self. I need to get into shape anyway and w/ gas prices in Nashville now over 3$/gallon, and only rising, if Atlanta prices are any indication of what is coming our way (almost 6$?!!), I'd gladly peddle my way to the store.

also, instead of taking the suburban everywhere, we bought my mom's old escort wagon for the go-go-grocery getting. only when all the kids need to go w/ us do we all pile in the fossil-fuel waster.

Hey nice bike, starting next week I think I will be using one of my two babies to make the 9 mile hike to the office. Derek and I are pretty good about not wasting gas, but this should save a few more trips a month to the gas station.

Hmm...looks like I don't have a side view of the mountain bike. It's the 2004 version of the Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc.

Fly it like you stole it!

[gravitational 0]

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This brings up the question, how do europeans deal with such high gas prices? What offsets the higher cost? Higher wages? Less driving? What?

Derek

From my visits over there I'd have to say a better public transportation infrastructure. I was too easy to get on a bus, train, boat (whatever) to get where I wanted to go. Also, the more 50cc mopeds than I've ever seen. you think piling people on golf carts at the WFFC is bad...I saw a family of 4 on one of these things.

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Michael

[gravitational 0]

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I like the motorcycle idea, way ahead of you. Of course this winter may be an issue.

The last motorcycle I had I did manage to ride year round with exception to the snow days. Just had to be a bit more alert after those snow days from the sand that was put down on the road. It can be done. It's cold, but doable.

Ditto. You can wear enough clothes to be warm with one exception, the hands, they're tricky.

While it looked dorky, I got some of those hand protector things for a dirtbike and strapped them on. kept the wind mostly off my hands.

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Michael

[Faber 0]

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Double what you are paying and see if you complain.

we have add aprox 30% on our gass prices,which slowly but steady has raised through years.. not long ago people talked about this as the criss in 70es however do some calculation and you´ll see that it were far more wors back then(inflasion etc(spell?)

We has in a long time payed more for gass than the american people.. the most fair thing would be the same price right...?

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Even if we are lower, this much a price increase still sucks

i truly agree

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how do europeans deal with such high gas prices?

we have gennerally smaller cars who drives more economic than the cars you see in the states..

to see a pickup truck arround here is usaly the same as see a farmer,usaly people dont drive them large trucks..

besides in DK we pay so much tax of a car that the car you see sold in US are 1.st class compared to thouse we get here even as we pay more(now thats a goverment thing i know..).

People here is thinking in disel cars as disel is cheaper 6/7 of the gass price,and by now days disel cars they run about the same as a gas car..

some people drive electrical cars(i dunno how much the pay pr mile/km to keep it running,but they dont run as long on a "tank" as a gas or disel car..(which means it probaly wont work in the US envioment as you guys drive ALOT

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[wmw999 2,587]

(about driving slower saving gas)

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I had heard that this is no longer as true with modern engines

My car is about 10 years old, and it's very definitely true with it. Makes a noticeable difference, particularly on the freeway.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mnealtx 0]

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billvon- thanks for the great post. Lots of good tips here- just wanted to comment on the first one though. Higher pressure in your tires will give you slightly better gas mileage- the downside, is that if you overinflate your tires (exceed whats posted on the door jam, but stay within tire pressure limits) you'll be replacing your tires alot quicker. The center of the tire will wear out considerably quicker. Of my 12 years working for Costco, about 9 years have been spent (on and off) working in the tire center (including being the supervisor for that dept).

But again, thanks for all the tips- I'll be using quite a few.

That's not been my experience - my tires last longer using the tire maker's recommended pressure than with the auto maker's.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AndyMan 7]

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Is this part still true? I had heard that this is no longer as true with modern engines.

Modern engines don't change the rules of aerodynamics.

Engines may run efficiently at high revs, but moving a giant cube through the wind at 70MPH will take a lot of energy, no matter how efficient the engine is.

Aerodynamic drag only becomes an issue as speed increases. At 30 mph, it's negligible. At 50 it's noticable, and at 70 you've got dollar signs flying out your tailpipe.

A good indication of drag is how quickly your car slows down when you take your foot off the gas with an automatic transmission. At 70mph, it's instantaneously. At 50, it's noticable, and at 35mph you seem to coast forever.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 3,111]

>Higher pressure in your tires will give you slightly better gas mileage-
> the downside, is that if you overinflate your tires (exceed whats
> posted on the door jam, but stay within tire pressure limits) you'll be
> replacing your tires alot quicker.'

Yep, and the car may not handle as well - and you may feel more road rumble. That's what you have to trade off against paying less for gas. On the plus side, since many people underinflate their tires, inflating them to their max may _increase_ their life, since the centers rather than the edges will start wearing.

[bmcd308 0]

I drive a 2001 Chevy Tahoe, and I carefully monitor its (lack of) fuel economy. I get better mileage in the city than on the highway (supports the slower is better proposition in a big way, since I am stopped a good bit in the city), but I get better highway mileage at 70 mph than at 65 mph. So while the laws of aerodynamics are, as AndyMan put it, immutable, apparently my particular engine is more efficient at slightly higher rpm.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[billvon 3,111]

>>7. Drive slower. You can save 10-15% by driving at 55mph instead
>> of 75mph.

>Is this part still true?

Yep. We've done some testing with the Prius, which has a pretty efficient engine, and its most efficient speed is 40-45mph, which is a speed at which air resistance is the big factor.

The problem is that the power needed from your engine goes up linearly with rolling friction. So if you need 5hp at 30mph to overcome rolling friction, you need 10hp at 60mph. If that was all it was, there would be no advantage to doing 30mph, because you could cover twice the distance with the same fuel at 60mph. But air resistance goes up as the _cube_ of speed. So if you need 5hp at 30mph to overcome air resistance, you'll need 40hp at 60mph. Designers try to get around this by using shallow top-end gears, such that the engine is running at a very efficient RPM/power setting, but it's just not possible to overcome an eight-to-one disadvantage.

[yardhippie 0]

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Is this part still true? I had heard that this is no longer as true with modern engines.

Modern engines don't change the rules of aerodynamics.

Engines may run efficiently at high revs, but moving a giant cube through the wind at 70MPH will take a lot of energy, no matter how efficient the engine is.

Aerodynamic drag only becomes an issue as speed increases. At 30 mph, it's negligible. At 50 it's noticable, and at 70 you've got dollar signs flying out your tailpipe.

A good indication of drag is how quickly your car slows down when you take your foot off the gas with an automatic transmission. At 70mph, it's instantaneously. At 50, it's noticable, and at 35mph you seem to coast forever.

_Am

thats true, but really it depends on the efficiency of the engine at a given travel speed.
I have a put over 40k miles on my car in just over a year.
some at high speeds (over 75) some at slower speeds(less than 75). I always top my tank off, always reset my trip meter, and i have learned that.
it gets its best MPG somwhere between 70 and 80.
any thing over 80 and it goes to crap in a hurry.
anything less than 70 and it still gets very good milage but not the best I have ever gotton.
All i can figure is that there is a happy point where wind drag, hp and torque, and MPH all come together and it just happends to be over 70mph..

just my .02.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[AndyMan 7]

I'm guessing you drive a sports car?

Cars with low drag will do better at higher speed.

Or, more specifically - the point where drag really starts to kill milleage is at a faster speed.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[yardhippie 0]

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I'm guessing you drive a sports car?

Cars with low drag will do better at higher speed.

Or, more specifically - the point where drag really starts to kill milleage is at a faster speed.

_Am

no, acutally I drive a Pintiac Vibe, 5speed, the same thing as a toyota matrix.

agreed. its a law of deminishing returns, there is a point where an increase in speed no longer increases MPG. My car just happens to be around 70 or 75

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[grue 1]

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Also, if you're driving on the highway for an extended period of time, get behind a big truck. You can cruise at 70-75 mph without a huge amount of wind resistance. I've been able to get over 40mpg out of my V6 grand prix on the trip to the DZ doing this (95mi). Just don't get close enough to piss the driver off.

Don't do this. If you're close enough to benefit, you're close enough so if the driver of the front vehicle brakes, you will hit him.

One of my biggest pet peeves are tailgaters. I'll be in the right lane on the interestate doing 80, and someone will be be right on my bumper in a big SUV, instead of just passing me like a sane person. If I hit my brakes for some reason, there's no way in hell their 6,000lb bimbo box with 'all season' rubber is going to stop fast enough to not rear end my 2,900lb sedan with upgraded brakes and high-grip tyres. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

cavete terrae.

[billvon 3,111]

>Don't do this. If you're close enough to benefit, you're close enough
>so if the driver of the front vehicle brakes, you will hit him.

Agreed. About the only vehicle it's safe to draft are the bigger tractor-trailers, because a) you can get pretty far back and still get the benefit of his massive burble and b) they can't stop as fast as a car.

[yardhippie 0]

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>Don't do this. If you're close enough to benefit, you're close enough
>so if the driver of the front vehicle brakes, you will hit him.

Agreed. About the only vehicle it's safe to draft are the bigger tractor-trailers, because a) you can get pretty far back and still get the benefit of his massive burble and b) they can't stop as fast as a car.

just my .02

you should never draft a big truck. You get that close and you can not be seen by the driver. those tires have around 110psi in them, when they blow it gets nasty. True big truck can not stop as fast as cars, but if you within a range to truely be drafting, you will be luck to react in time should the truck stop quickly. plus it really pisses off truck drivers when you do that. Thats theyre job, theyre at work, youd not like someone standing behind you (where you cant see them, but you know they are there) all day either.

just for the record. I hold a valid CDL, but no longer drive as part of my job.

Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD
"What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me
"Anything you want." ~ female skydiver
Mohoso Rodriguez #865

[skycat 0]

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I'm guessing you drive a sports car?

Cars with low drag will do better at higher speed.

Or, more specifically - the point where drag really starts to kill milleage is at a faster speed.

_Am

My Mustang GTs happy spot was from 75-80, above that gas milage went down fast, below that it was good but not the best. My Mazda 6 also gets it's best milage in the high end, but lower than the mustang 70-75 range. In a week and a half we are driving out to CA and will probably stick to around 70 mph. High altitude also helps, less O2 means less gas required in the mixture, it also means less HP, but the trade off is worth it.

Fly it like you stole it!

[justinb138 0]

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Don't do this. If you're close enough to benefit, you're close enough so if the driver of the front vehicle brakes, you will hit him.

Not necessarily. I've been able to notice quite a difference even at a reasonable distance, but it has been when I'm following a 53ft trailer in a car that stands only about 4 ft above the ground (and also has very good brakes). It works great for small cars, but is certainly a bad idea if you're driving an SUV or something of that size.

Edit: by "reasonable distance" I mean a distance at which I could easily stop, and where the driver can see me. Any closer than that just makes me uncomfortable.

[markd_nscr986 0]

***Pffft.......try $75 to fill.


$12 to fill my bike...........50-55 mpg........it usually lasts about a week

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[sinker 0]

thanks... i'm real jazzed about it... you too.

-the artist formerly known as sinker