ChasingBlueSky 0 #1 August 31, 2005 Meteorologists: It Could Have Been Worse http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050831/ap_on_re_us/katrina_how_big Devastating as Katrina was, it would have been far worse but for a puff of dry air that came out of the Midwest, weakening the hurricane just before it reached land and pushing it slightly to the east. The gust transformed a Category 5 monster into a less-threatening Category 4 storm, and pushed Katrina off its Big Easy-bound trajectory, sparing New Orleans a direct hit — though not horrendous harm. "It was kind of an amazing sequence of events," said Peter Black, a meteorologist at the Hurricane Research Division of the federal government's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory. On Sunday, meteorologists watched in awe as one of the most powerful hurricanes they had ever seen churned northward over the Gulf of Mexico on a direct bearing for New Orleans. Fed by unusually warm waters in the central gulf, Katrina easily pumped itself up to a Category 5 monster, with top winds approaching 175 mph. That afternoon a National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration aircraft flying through the storm pegged its minimum barometric pressure at 902 millibars, making Katrina the fourth most powerful hurricane ever observed. But by the time it reached land Monday, Katrina was no stronger than any of a dozen or more hurricanes that have hit the United States in the past century. Hurricane Camille had a substantially lower central pressure when it slammed into Mississippi in 1969. Hurricane Charley blasted the Sunshine State with higher winds when it came ashore near Tampa last year. So if it wasn't so powerful, how did Hurricane Katrina inflict so much destruction? The storm's sheer size was one factor. As powerful as Hurricane Charley was, that storm's swath of destruction was only about 10 miles wide. Katrina battered everything from just west of New Orleans to Pensacola, Fla., a span of more than 200 miles. At noon Monday, hurricane force winds extended to 125 miles from Katrina's center. "This storm was quite a bit larger, so the extent of the damaging wind field would have covered a much larger geographic area," said Marc Levitan, a professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Louisiana State University. Geography also played a role in the hurricane's destructiveness. The Gulf of Mexico's northern fringe is an extremely shallow shelf extending up to 120 miles offshore. That makes the region's coastline extremely vulnerable to the storm surges that hurricanes create as their winds and low pressure pile up water and push it ashore. And Katrina was moving fairly slowly, about 12 to 15 mph. That gave the storm surge more time to build up as the hurricane approached the coast and then moved inland. Those circumstances made Katrina "nearly a worst-case scenario," said Hurricane Research Division meteorologist Stanley Goldberg. Some witnesses reported storm surges of more than 25 feet along the Mississippi coast, among the highest ever recorded. The waters around New Orleans rose as much as 22 feet. But the catastrophic sequence of events that appeared highly likely on Sunday afternoon — a Category 5 hurricane washing over the Big Easy's ramparts and filling it like a bowl — did not come to pass. Instead, a different scenario unfolded. Several levees failed on Tuesday, unleashing floods that placed the city of 480,000 in peril long after Hurricane Katrina had dissipated._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #2 August 31, 2005 QuoteInstead, a different scenario unfolded. Several levees failed on Tuesday, unleashing floods that placed the city of 480,000 in peril long after Hurricane Katrina had dissipated. I've been asking myself why a town would be developed where pumps and levees are needed for the town to stay dry? IMO, the town should never have been developed to the extent that it has over the years and years. I understand when the town was first settled there was not the knowledge we have now. I am always reminded of an old Indian saying when I go out backpacking. White man will build a house where an Indian would never set up a tent over night. May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #3 August 31, 2005 You have a good point... New Orleans goes as far back as the Napoleonic era, before there were any levees and the Mississippi river was allowed to freely change course as Nature intended. It's just man's fault that New Orleans evolved to what it is now. I am curious though, if the ground throughout the city has sunk any over the past 200 years?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #4 August 31, 2005 I'm sure when the town was founded so near the mouth of the Mississippi years and years ago, they were not thinking about flooding, but instead an easy trade route.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j0nes 0 #5 August 31, 2005 QuoteYou have a good point... New Orleans goes as far back as the Napoleonic era, DAMN the french! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #6 August 31, 2005 Quote White man will build a house where an Indian would never set up a tent over night. An old Indian would never refer to himself or his people as "Indians"__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #7 August 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteYou have a good point... New Orleans goes as far back as the Napoleonic era, DAMN the french! Although Mar was correct in saying the Orleans founder wanted an easy trade route, ONLY the stupid French could have picked a worse location... Oops... this might end up in SC... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #8 August 31, 2005 I love New Orleans - beautiful place, fun people, great history there as well. However, the last time I was there I walked around and looked at the river level and where the city was...and thought how bad it will be when (not if) their safety systems fail. I feel the same about the people here on the south side of Chicago that have homes right on the rivers that are massively prone to flooding. (If the lock on the Chicago river failed, we would have the same issue on hand). Then again, all those beachfront property owners on the east coast have the same issue (outbanks, most of Florida, etc) NOLA got lucky that they were only brushed over by a 3/4 hurricane - imagine if a 5 hit them head on?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #9 August 31, 2005 Quote NOLA got lucky that they were only brushed over by a 3/4 hurricane - imagine if a 5 hit them head on? I'd say they did get somewhat lucky in that regard, only to have man-made systems fail and screw them over after all... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #10 August 31, 2005 QuoteQuote White man will build a house where an Indian would never set up a tent over night. An old Indian would never refer to himself or his people as "Indians" OMG give me a break. I don't remember the exact quote, but you get the idea Some people have to find fault in every thing that is postedMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #11 August 31, 2005 I agree that development should not have been allowed where it was. In Colorado and throughout the west, development is never allowed within a 100-year floodplain. I think the chances of this happening in a 100-year period is pretty good, so the entire city would be consdered a floodplain. If the development was already there, money should have been spent upfront to protect the development before this happened. This scenario is no surprise, "they" have been saying for years this is what would happen if a major hurricane were to hit New Orleans. There are a number of things they could have done to prepare for this including strengthinging existing levees and building a number of additional levees to compartmentalize the city in the event that one levee breaks. A few levee breaches flooding the entire town is unacceptable. Sure, it would have cost a lot...billions, but wouldn't that be preferable to what is happening now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #12 August 31, 2005 All I can say is that I'm glad to have had several chances to visit the city and the French Quarter, but in no way would I have ever lived there, just because of the way the city is situated."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #13 August 31, 2005 QuoteWhite man will build a house where an Indian would never set up a tent over night. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ An old Indian would never refer to himself or his people as "Indians" Actually most Native Americans I have met will often refer to their people as "Indians". Yeah, we all know its a misnomer caused by Columbus not knowing where the f&*k he was. But most Native Americans just don't give a flying one & will use the term as a common expression. Its just a word. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #14 August 31, 2005 QuoteI've been asking myself why a town would be developed where pumps and levees are needed for the town to stay dry? Isn't Amsterdam (& a large surrounding area)the same way? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #15 August 31, 2005 New Orleans was settled by the French... ------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #16 August 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteI've been asking myself why a town would be developed where pumps and levees are needed for the town to stay dry? Isn't Amsterdam (& a large surrounding area)the same way? ...and Amersterdam is Flemish, AND Hurricanes don't hit the European Continent. Well, "extra tropical" morphings of them do, but they don't have storm surge and high winds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #17 August 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI've been asking myself why a town would be developed where pumps and levees are needed for the town to stay dry? Isn't Amsterdam (& a large surrounding area)the same way? ...and Amersterdam is Flemish, AND Hurricanes don't hit the European Continent. Well, "extra tropical" morphings of them do, but they don't have storm surge and high winds. Well, North Sea storms have been known to be brutal sometimes."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Knobee 0 #18 August 31, 2005 This story must have been written before the levy failed. Now, for some reality: Live News Feed We are in the midst of about 90% of the "worst case scenario" for NOLA. Those that have not jumped can not understand Those that have jumped can not explain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #19 August 31, 2005 This news clip from the latest news: "2:27PM ET Update: The mayor said Wednesday that Hurricane Katrina probably killed thousands of people in New Orleans. "We know there is a significant number of dead bodies in the water," and others dead in attics, Mayor Ray Nagin said. Asked how many, he said: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands." NEW ORLEANS (Aug. 31) - The governor of Louisiana says everyone needs to leave New Orleans due to flooding from Hurricane Katrina. "We've sent buses in. We will be either loading them by boat, helicopter, anything that is necessary," Gov. Kathleen Blanco said. Army engineers trying to plug New Orleans' breached levees struggled to move giant sandbags and concrete barriers into place, and the governor said Wednesday the situation was growing more desperate and there was no choice but to abandon the flooded city." This sucks major balls... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #20 August 31, 2005 Nope, the story was pushed today, after the levee broke. If the '4th strongest recorded' hurricane landed on top of NOLA, that city would be in a worse state of emergency than it currently is. Thinking just how bad it is now, that says a lot. But it could still get worse. Looking at this realistically, there is a good chance that the Gulf Coast could still take another hit this season. People in Pensacola are still recovering from last year and may have already lost what they were rebuilding. Here is another thought - how many emergency crew are busy pulling out the thousands that decided to stay in their non-hurricane proof home/shanty that could be focused on stopping the flooding of the city. It seems to me this is the first time in modern American history that a major metropolitian city needs to be 100% evacuated for more than just a day._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #21 August 31, 2005 QuoteHere is another thought - how many emergency crew are busy pulling out the thousands that decided to stay in their non-hurricane proof home/shanty that could be focused on stopping the flooding of the city. I was thinking that myself. You're in the path of a cat 5 hurricane and living below sea level.... WTF? At least go to a shelter so they can move people in mass and not have to go looking for you. Can people in N.O. even get 'flood insurance'? I wonder how many homes are going to be lost and not paid for it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #22 August 31, 2005 Katrina's a messy bitch. But at least they're now (Wednesday PM) saying the flood waters have stabilized & aren't rising anymore. anyone got a shop vac? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #23 August 31, 2005 QuoteKatrina's a messy bitch. But at least they're now (Wednesday PM) saying the flood waters have stabilized & aren't rising anymore. anyone got a shop vac? Hi SR The only reason the flood waters aren't rising is because water is lazy and will reach it's own level. Watching this situation is like watching a horror movie. We've seen 100 yr floods in the Midwest within a couple of yr's of ea other. The local politicans are saying we promise we will rebuild. Save the living, try and minimize the suffering, and plan for the future so the next time mother nature does it's thing the majority of the people are living on high ground. Shit flows down hill Why live in a new toilet R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #24 August 31, 2005 Update? New Orleans will be closed for business for the next 3-4 months. Nobody's gonna be let in. You know, it gets me to thinking about the poverty, etc. that's going to happen. People who work New Orleans don't have jobs. Employers and businessmen don't have customers. This is a shock to the local, if not national, economy that will be felt for a while yet. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #25 August 31, 2005 QuoteThis is a shock to the local, if not national, economy that will be felt for a while yet. Hmmm... how long until the conspiracy theorist 'prove' that terrorist breached the levvy?it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
