Reminder....

[mitsuman 0]

Please wait for the dam green light to jump out...

I saw a couple guys jump out on orange last weekend and am very happy it was uneventful.

Be safe.

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[skybytch 273]

What if I'm jumping one of those planes that doesn't have lights? Then what do I do?

[SkyBastard 0]

hope someone's got a green marker pen

Dude #320
"Superstitious" is just a polite way of saying "incredibly fucking stupid".
DONK!

[MakeItHappen 15]

Were the guys by the door looking at the spot and for AC below?
Maybe they had more information (like what the spot was) than you did??
Maybe the pilot was late on the light?
Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Were the guys by the door looking at the spot and for AC below?
Maybe they had more information (like what the spot was) than you did??
Maybe the pilot was late on the light?
Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

Then that should be a go around. If the pilot has not signaled that the aircraft is ready for exit, you should not exit. if there is no light then other arrangements obviously are made, but if the DZ uses lights, then use the lights.

[hackish 8]

If a pilot forgets to turn on the light they'll get the hint when the AC is still full of people anxiously checking their altimeters. Look at the bright side on the go-around maybe the pilot will keep climbing.

The thing that gets me is at the large DZ's few people seem to look down. Light goes green and out they go. I understand you can't screw up the spot for the entire load but if the DZ is still 10mi away I want to know before letting go of the AC.

-Michael

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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If a pilot forgets to turn on the light they'll get the hint when the AC is still full of people anxiously checking their altimeters. Look at the bright side on the go-around maybe the pilot will keep climbing.

The thing that gets me is at the large DZ's few people seem to look down. Light goes green and out they go. I understand you can't screw up the spot for the entire load but if the DZ is still 10mi away I want to know before letting go of the AC.

-Michael

Are you saying you would not be willing to skydive in IMC (local laws not withstanding)?
I have jumped over complete cloud cover using Loran in Spain. You younger folks can ask your Grampa what that was.

[davelepka 4]

  Quote

Were the guys by the door looking at the spot and for AC below?
Maybe they had more information (like what the spot was) than you did??
Maybe the pilot was late on the light?
Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

Maybe there was traffic the spotters did not see, but ATC and the pilot did.

Maybe the pilot was having trouble configuring the plane for jump run.

Maybe the pilot just felt like taking a go around because it's was anice day.

Whatever the case, no light, no go (aside from a cabin fire or structural failure).

[MakeItHappen 15]

  Quote

  Quote

Were the guys by the door looking at the spot and for AC below?
Maybe they had more information (like what the spot was) than you did??
Maybe the pilot was late on the light?
Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

Maybe there was traffic the spotters did not see, but ATC and the pilot did.

Then the pilot would put the red light on and not the amber light. He would also probably turn around to start a go-around for an ok pass.

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Maybe the pilot was having trouble configuring the plane for jump run.

What does that mean?

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Maybe the pilot just felt like taking a go around because it's was anice day.

yeah right.

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Whatever the case, no light, no go (aside from a cabin fire or structural failure).

I don't agree with this. If you are at altitude, on a jump run then expect to exit shortly. The times that an aborted jumprun has happened are signaled by 'go-around' maneuvers first, lights second.
Other times, when a pilot forgot to put the green light on, have resulted in +100 jumpers burning a ticket for a pilot error or the dive can be made ok when someone says climb out to the floaters because the AC are lined up in formation, at altitude, running across the dz and the only thing missing is a green light from the pilot. Pilots do, on occasion, forget to put the green light on.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[JohnRich 4]

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Pilots do, on occasion, forget to put the green light on.

Yes, but there are also other reasons for a green light not being on. Like not yet having permission from ATC to jump, or not yet broadcasting the required two-minute notice. And if you go ahead and jump anyway in those circumstances, then the jump is illegal. Therefore, you should not just assume that the pilot merely forgot, and jump anyway. You should instead find out why the light is not yet green. If that requires a go-around for the jump run, so be it, and that's the pilot's fault, but no harm is done other than a short delay. On the other hand, if a jump is made illegally, the consequences can be much more severe than just a short delay.

[DSE 5]

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[Other times, when a pilot forgot to put the green light on, have resulted in +100 jumpers burning a ticket for a pilot error or the dive can be made ok when someone says climb out to the floaters because the AC are lined up in formation, at altitude, running across the dz and the only thing missing is a green light from the pilot. Pilots do, on occasion, forget to put the green light on.

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I don't feel you can appropriately apply what happens on bigway practices or attempts to a "normal" situation.
There are many times we've been given the 2 minute light, then given the Open Door light, and the pilot will begin a go-around just as jumpers think they're prepped to go.
Our DZ is a training DZ for a local college pilot program. It's not entirely uncommon for some moron to be blazing across the sky at 4k perpendicular to jump run. We also border the RNav for SLC International and will occasionally have a small jet in the same airspace as our approach to jump run. The pilot might not have the mind to turn on or off various indicators while communicating with ATC or the ground. If the light isn't lit, we don't go. At a larger DZ like Perris or Elsinore, maybe surprises don't happen.

[pilotdave 0]

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Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

I guess it's DZ specific, but it's a huge no-no to exit without a green light (if the plane has lights) at some DZs for all the reasons mentioned above. If the pilot forgot to turn the light on, we yell at him. Sometimes he didn't forget... he meant not to turn it on.

Dave

[mitsuman 0]

  Quote

Were the guys by the door looking at the spot and for AC below?
Maybe they had more information (like what the spot was) than you did??
Maybe the pilot was late on the light?
Believe it or not, pilots do forget to turn on the green light - not often, but that has happened before.

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It looked like they were spotting yes...AC?

Well right after they jumped out everyone including instructors made it known to the rest of the jumpers to hold on, so i would imagine it wasnt safe.

The pilot was not late on the light because he was told people were jumping out and we still flew for a good 30 seconds before he turned the green light on. If it was time, i would imagine he would just flick the light over right away.

Hi, my names Jon, and I love to skydive.

[erdnarob 1]

Please do not always rely on green light either. In 2007 at a major center we were doing a 32 way, the green light came on and we didn't check where we were. We all jumped, it happened that jump was a total mess both for the formation and the spot. When I opened I couldn't find the airport and other skydivers were turning in a circle looking completely lost. It happened we were at 5 miles from the DZ in the middle of corn fields. I managed to find a clean place for landing between 2 fields like most of my fellow jumpers did. I even was lucky enough to get a ride back at the airport on a very well know parcel service truck which just happened to be nearby.
Last March in a major Florida DZ, the green light went on and the ten of us jumped, this time we were way too short with respect to the airport. After our relative work we separated and opened. I was seeing the airport at an angle of 15 degrees and after holding my brakes to float and come back I calculated I couldn't make it back. The problem was that I was over the forest and I immediately spot a not too big glade with a big tree at the beginning. I cleared that tree by 5 feet and managed to land sofltly but in small bushes (no stand up). Never I would have imagined that I would have to do accuracy with my almost brand new Katana. I wasn't happy since this was not the first load of the day and there has been no significant wind change. This time I had to walk for half an hour back to the road where a truck was waiting for the 5 people who landed in the forest including myself. Beware the green, on an jump plane but also on the road...but this is another story.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[labrys 0]

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Then that should be a go around. If the pilot has not signaled that the aircraft is ready for exit, you should not exit. if there is no light then other arrangements obviously are made, but if the DZ uses lights, then use the lights.

Agreed. This thread seems like a huge overreaction / complication of what IMO is a very simple thing.

If the pilot hasn't indicated an okay to exit, whether it's a green light, a shout, a disco ball, or a freaking cow bell then it's NOT okay to exit. If it turns out that the pilot forgot to drop a dime in the exit approval apparatus then that's the pilot's fault. Go around.

If the pilot HAS illuminated the "go have fun" light it's STILL up to each person in the door to look around before exiting. We all make mistakes but damn, it's not all that complicated on the surface.

Owned by Remi #?

[billvon 3,090]

>Other times, when a pilot forgot to put the green light on, have resulted
>in +100 jumpers burning a ticket for a pilot error . . .

Right - and that's OK. The alternative is not OK.

Case in point. I was once doing a 60-way at Perris. I was right trail. We got the red light and were waiting to climb out. Just as we were about to climb out the pilot yelled back "HOLD! We're on a hold! We got traffic!" There was a moment of confusion as people thought he was saying "GO!" but we got people seated and the door closed.

The cameraman then looked out the door, said "shit!" opened the door and dove out. The first few floaters dove out as well. The rest of us followed like a bunch of mindless lemmings. The lead plane had ignored the steady red and had just gone when they thought the spot was good, and both trail planes followed.

This resulted in 60 skydivers jumping over known traffic. Fortunately there were no collisions - but it could have been much worse.

[DSE 5]

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Agreed. This thread seems like a huge overreaction / complication of what IMO is a very simple thing....
We all make mistakes but damn, it's not all that complicated on the surface.

You'd think...but in this thread alone, we have highly experienced skydivers advocating one action, and highly experienced skydivers advocating an opposite action. If it's "hazy in the pulpit...."
One benefit of going out without a greenlight is it absolves the pilot of any responsibility when there is an incident. I'd rather have the pilot to blame.

IMO, it's like an intersection; if it isn't green, you don't go. The green light is the only communication device the jumpers at the door have with the pilot. The pilot usually has radio, ATC, better field of vision, a rear-view mirror, and an overall handle on the situation. A go-around or 180 burns some fuel, but it is also more safe, isn't it?

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Wasn't there a recent fatal incident in the US where a jumper exited before the green light and this error was one of several key factors leading to his striking the aircraft's horizontal stabilizer?

As I recollect, the aircraft in this incident was a Beech and the pilot had not yet put the aircraft in the appropriate attitude to move the horizontal stabilizer up out of the likely path of exiting jumpers.

Here is a link to a description of this incident:

http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/Detailed/345.shtml

Heck, I have even see pilots give different kinds of jumpers different spots on the same jump run. Specificly, I have done full altitude hop and pops where the pilot gave the freefallers a spot closer to the DZ, and gave us high-openers a spot further from the DZ. If we had ignored the light... we would have lost the opportunity to get the correct spot for us!

Regarding looking out the door to spot traffic.... It is mighty hard to see traffic on the other side of the plane when sticking one's head out the door.... so if the pilot doesn't have the green light on... he may know about traffic that the jumper in the door cannot see.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!