Is Jump for the Cause on track?

[Vallerina 2]

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I would find a way to be cool with the whole opposite gender standard thing.

Yes, yes. You are so right. I just sat there thinking of ways to justify it.

Or....or....maybe it's just that I am actually okay with men doing the same if they chose to do so. I mean, my dad was in an all-men's bowling league, and my aunt was in an all-female league. I didn't realize that they were bringing down society by further segregating themselves because segregation automatically means admitting a lesser value.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[jenfly00 0]

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I would find a way to be cool with the whole opposite gender standard thing.

Yes, yes. You are so right. I just sat there thinking of ways to justify it.

Or....or....maybe it's just that I am actually okay with men doing the same if they chose to do so. I mean, my dad was in an all-men's bowling league, and my aunt was in an all-female league. I didn't realize that they were bringing down society by further segregating themselves because segregation automatically means admitting a lesser value.

I meant what I said, I would find it too easy to rationalize. Anything else you infer is not coming from me.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Vallerina 2]

Well then, sorry for the assumptions.

For me it is easy to rationalize because there's nothing wrong with it.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ltdiver 3]

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I have seen worse in PARACHUTIST, which as I recall is the official publication of Jan's organization.

You mean like the pics from all the Pink Mafia events. WHich I think are great BTW!

And what about the hot dogs in a bath tub ad? IMHO, that was -way- worse than the Pink Mafia pics.

This thread promted me to present the calendar to my -very- conservative, religious, Republican family last night. I was 1/2 expecting them to raise their eyebrows, especially since I was the very first month....

I was delighted, when they opened it that they were extremely supportive of the calendar and all the pictures in it. They're taking it home to hang up for all to enjoy!

Erotica. I think not. Everyone I've shown it to, from the CEO and Administrator where I work (another conservative establishment) to neighbors here at home, have remarked at the tasteful composition and beauty of the calendar and the women who are in it.

Thanks, Jan, for giving me that little shove to bring my own family closer.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[diablopilot 2]

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Would I be okay with men having an all-men-way? Sure!

1) The backing would be small.

2) There would be an outcry that it was a "sexist" or discriminatory" event.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jenfly00 0]

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Would I be okay with men having an all-men-way? Sure!

1) The backing would be small.

2) There would be an outcry that it was a "sexist" or discriminatory" event.

By it's very definition, it would be both sexist and discriminatory. Whether this would be "OK" is up to individual interpretation.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[mnealtx 0]

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Would I be okay with men having an all-men-way? Sure!

1) The backing would be small.

2) There would be an outcry that it was a "sexist" or discriminatory" event.

By it's very definition, it would be both sexist and discriminatory. Whether this would be "OK" is up to individual interpretation.

By the same definition, wouldn't an "all-women-way", such as JFTC, be equally as sexist and discriminatory?

I personally don't have a problem with it, whether it be all men, all women, or mixed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,107]

>By the same definition, wouldn't an "all-women-way", such as
>JFTC, be equally as sexist and discriminatory?

Sure. Heck, women's bathrooms are sexist and discriminatory, but other than college they've been the norm everywhere I've gone.

[jenfly00 0]

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>By the same definition, wouldn't an "all-women-way", such as
>JFTC, be equally as sexist and discriminatory?

Sure. Heck, women's bathrooms are sexist and discriminatory, but other than college they've been the norm everywhere I've gone.

I could understand Mike pulling that old chestnut out of the fire, Bill ...but you?

For decades, (the norm, you might say ) those opposed to women rising above wives and prostitutes (a centuries old norm) pull that old chestnut out of the fire.

Nothing evil about JFTC, I just believe organizations based on gender discrimination have outlived their usefulness while continuing to promote stereotypes.

Of course, that's just my unbiased view.

jen

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[billvon 3,107]

>For decades, (the norm, you might say Wink ) those opposed to
>women rising above wives and prostitutes (a centuries old norm) pull
>that old chestnut out of the fire.

I think there are three phases to any group reclaiming their rights.

In the first phase, they feel oppressed (usually rightly so) and mount a huge effort to let everyone know that they have rights. Unfortunately, history has shown that a huge effort is usually needed, and groups/organizations/PAC's etc form to coordinate that effort.

In the second phase, they have achieved their result; they have the rights they desire. Those organizations are still around, and they continue their work. There is often a big stink made over minor issues (like bathrooms or all-male/all-female events) in order to publicize the issue. You can't really blame the organizations for it; that's their raison d'etre, and they often pursue serious issues as well. And there are still issues out there; they just have become more minor (i.e. women being promoted to high level leadership positions vs. women working at all.)

In the third phase, equality becomes a given and no one really cares any more. Pro-X or anti-X groups fade away because no one wants to fund them any more; it would be a like an "end discrimination against the Irish" group trying to form today. I think that's the ultimate goal here. A culture that not only doesn't discriminate against women/the irish/blacks or whatever, a culture where it's not even a big enough issue to get riled up about.

When I went to college, I was fortunate enough to live in a place where everyone pretty much was in the third phase. Some bathrooms were male or female only and some were coed, and no one really cared. Some teams were all-male or all-female and no one really cared. We haven't reached that point yet in mainstream society; I hope we do.

[Candy 0]

Well, good luck to everybody on this.
Just remember the important thing is bringing awareness to breast cancer.

I won’t be jumping for the cause, but I will be driving for it.
In November I’m driving in the Women’s ProROCK Championships, a “Crawl for the Cure”.

Good Luck Ladies…..and jump your little asses off.
Candy

[diablopilot 2]

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I just believe organizations based on gender discrimination have outlived their usefulness while continuing to promote stereotypes.

I wholehartedly agree.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Just remember the important thing is bringing awareness to breast cancer.

Absolutly!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Nothing evil about JFTC, I just believe organizations based on gender discrimination have outlived their usefulness while continuing to promote stereotypes.

JFTC...supporting breast cancer research. Breast cancer that occurs in women to men at a ratio of approximately 100:1.

-What were you saying about JFTC being gender-biased? That's funny, because you see the disease they are looking to cure is too. You know, the funny thing is that prostate cancer seems to only occur in men. It's pretty biased, too.

Maybe you should radio the Almighty and tell him your views on gender bias. That otta straighten things out. -Unless you think that prostate cancer support groups should have equal number of men and women...I mean, just to make sure that everything is equal and all...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Keith 0]

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You know, the funny thing is that prostate cancer seems to only occur in men. It's pretty biased, too.

Well, except the last I heard women don't have prostates Isn't that like saying testicular cancer is biased, or ovarian cancer is biased.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[rhys 0]

wow i can't believe there are so many negative comments about an amazing event with incredibly generous motives.

my partner is on JFTC and has spent endless hours, contacting people and running around fundraising. she has featured in many magazines and newspapers and on the national news. with follow up storys when she gets back. she raised more than the required amont and some participants have raised almost $8000.

all this stuff is positive.

Good one girls you all rock.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[jenfly00 0]

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Nothing evil about JFTC, I just believe organizations based on gender discrimination have outlived their usefulness while continuing to promote stereotypes.

JFTC...supporting breast cancer research. Breast cancer that occurs in women to men at a ratio of approximately 100:1.

-What were you saying about JFTC being gender-biased? That's funny, because you see the disease they are looking to cure is too. You know, the funny thing is that prostate cancer seems to only occur in men. It's pretty biased, too.

Maybe you should radio the Almighty and tell him your views on gender bias. That otta straighten things out. -Unless you think that prostate cancer support groups should have equal number of men and women...I mean, just to make sure that everything is equal and all...

You're still not over the face painting thing, huh?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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In the third phase, equality becomes a given and no one really cares any more. Pro-X or anti-X groups fade away because no one wants to fund them any more; it would be a like an "end discrimination against the Irish" group trying to form today. I think that's the ultimate goal here. A culture that not only doesn't discriminate against women/the irish/blacks or whatever, a culture where it's not even a big enough issue to get riled up about.

I cannot imagine this scenario you describe...it sounds like the demise of passion, creativity, & individuality, not to mention ROMANCE.

Equality does not mean that everyone is the same.
It means no one is any better than the other and all deserve equal rights under the law.

Men/Woman/Black/Hispanics/Irish.. we are not all the same..our blood chemistry is different, our bodies are different our cultures are different, or diseases are different.. how can we be the same?
We're not..

No group should be held in higher regard than any other based solely on gender or ethnic background.. I think that was the point of discrimination.

A Unisex society seems very boring.. I'm glad I'm not likely to see Phase 3 in my lifetime.

And on topic, I can't possibly see how JFTC or the calendar is sexist or bad in anyway. But there will always be some overbearing activists in every group who insists that when a group of like minded individuals gets together that it must be a negative reflection on our society as a whole.

We should be CELEBRATING our differences, not attempting to eliminate them and pretend they are not there!!!!

Pink Suits,
Dawn Suiter

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Guys are allowed to be packing bitches on jump for the cause. What else do you want?

[Shotgun 1]

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In the third phase, equality becomes a given and no one really cares any more. Pro-X or anti-X groups fade away because no one wants to fund them any more; it would be a like an "end discrimination against the Irish" group trying to form today. I think that's the ultimate goal here. A culture that not only doesn't discriminate against women/the irish/blacks or whatever, a culture where it's not even a big enough issue to get riled up about.

I cannot imagine this scenario you describe...it sounds like the demise of passion, creativity, & individuality, not to mention ROMANCE.

Really??? I think the scenario sounds like a _good_ thing. But then I didn't read it as being a unisex society or a society where everyone was the same, just a culture where discrimination no longer happens enough to be much of an issue, and isn't that pretty much what we all want?

As for the calendar, I can see Jan's point of view and I can see the point of view of those who don't agree with her - doesn't appear to be a black and white issue. But it's not really any of my business since I am not involved with JFTC...

Anyhow, good luck to everyone who is involved with JFTC. I hope everything goes well, everyone has a great time, and lots of money is raised for the cause!

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[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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isn't that pretty much what we all want?

I can only speak for myself of course, but no.

I don't want to live in a culture where celebrating being a woman, mom, or hispanic is something I should hide or be ashamed of.

added: of course this is all coming from someone who stripped for a living, and found it to be incredibly wonderful and empowering. I hate to think of that profession as a thing of the past because other women who didn't strip for a living found it to be 'wrong' or a setback for woman's equality!

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Is Jump for the Cause on track?

I would think their goal is to raise money and awareness for breast cancer research. They are doing that. So, I would answer, yes, they are on track.

The calendar is a bit risqué, sure, but I wondered how many sales they gained vs. how many they lost. I think they sold more because it is a bit risqué, than they lost because it isn’t a sterile calendar. It is a very tasteful, eye catching calendar. I bought 2.

Some people put a lot of time and effort into the event and they raise money and awareness for breast cancer research. I think an all-female world record skydive is a terrific means of gaining awareness outside the skydiving community.

Do you think it is not “on track”?
If yes, how do you think it is off-track?
What would suggest as a ‘fix’ to get it back on-track?

Derek

[billvon 3,107]

>I cannot imagine this scenario you describe...it sounds like the demise
>of passion, creativity, & individuality, not to mention ROMANCE.

I lived this scenario in college - and believe me, there was no lack of romance. In fact, there was a lot _more_ going on between men and women, because there were no artificial divisions. Nature provides plenty of distinction between the sexes without having to add artificial ones.

>Equality does not mean that everyone is the same.

That is exactly correct.

>A Unisex society seems very boring.. I'm glad I'm not likely to see
>Phase 3 in my lifetime.

Who said anything about unisex?

>And on topic, I can't possibly see how JFTC or the calendar is sexist or
>bad in anyway. But there will always be some overbearing activists in
>every group who insists that when a group of like minded individuals
>gets together that it must be a negative reflection on our society as a whole.

Yep. And like I said before, some of them may just be plain prejudiced against one group or the other, and some may be used to dealing with a very pervasive discrimination. These latter people may be so used to reacting to that that they react to _every_ difference between men and women the same way.

[billvon 3,107]

> I hate to think of that profession as a thing of the past (stripping)
> because other women who didn't strip for a living found it to be 'wrong'
>or a setback for woman's equality!

Wouldn't you rather have people just not care about it from a moral point of view? Isn't that better than having people call strippers immoral, and then having to set up a 'strippers rights' group or something?

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I don't know... it's just a weird scenario to consider.. like you can't have good without bad.. I mean, if you take away those 'immoral' folks.. won't that then detract from the very nature of stripping being taboo?

I'm reminded of a Star Trek TNG episode where they encouter a race of unisex creatures.. Riker asks one.. "who leads when you dance" and the alien answers, "whoever is the tallest"

so that left me thinking, even if we were all the same sex & race, we would still find ways to distinguish ourselves into smaller groups...