One Five Lima is Lost in the Clouds . . .

[NickDG 23]

A VFR pilot gets into IMC . . .

http://www.naats.org/docs/flightassist.mp3

NickD
BASE 194

[Viking 0]

i would have tell the guy.........."ok dude i get it mayday stop yelling it in my ear jackass"

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[JohnMitchell 16]

Been there, done that, got a plaque and to shake Jane Garvey's hand.

[HUSHPUPPY 0]

Having been an Air Traffic Controller for almost 20 yrs, and a pilot a little longer...I can assure you this happens more often than you may think! It will scare the S#*t out of you, weather you are the pilot or the controller!

"You made my panties wet!" Skymama (Fitz 09)
"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

[Rookie120 0]

Sounds like that guy was shittin a twinkie! Vertigo sucks but you need to not only watch your instruments but you have to believe them. Thats the hard part.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[freeflir29 0]

I'm sorry but I laughed almost uncontrollabley listening to this freakin moron. Who let him fly in the first place!

[gemini 0]

It is unbelievable how screwed up you can get when flying blind. The instruments are telling you one thing and your mind due to the bodys balancing mechanism is telling you something else.

I feel sorry for solo pilots in this situation. It is very easy to get overwhelmed by the instruments, the radio, and your own mind. Pilot and co-pilot combos are the only way to go...

Blue skies,

Jim

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I'm sorry but I laughed almost uncontrollabley listening to this freakin moron. Who let him fly in the first place!

There is no IQ test to be a pilot.

[Derekbox 0]

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***I'm sorry but I laughed almost uncontrollabley listening to this freakin moron. Who let him fly in the first place!

There is no IQ test to be a pilot.

There is also no IQ test to qualify someone to make make asinine comments on random internet bulletin boards either. Good thing too - right?

[goose491 0]

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There is also no IQ test to qualify someone to make make asinine comments on random internet bulletin boards either. Good thing too - right?

Who`s comments are you declaring to be asinine?

The Pilot of One Five Lima clearly lost his head. Scared or not, that`s just not cool.... That`s why it`s called "Loosing your cool" !

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[ACMESkydiver 0]

That pilot needs some stress management training.

Ah geezus and he's flying 50 miles north of me, too.

Poor guy still has no clue what happened. If you listen to the FAA asking him questions in the second recording, he really doesn't have a clue what happened. He said he rolled twice, he was in a spin...he was everything...

On a side note, one of my instructors that was an ATC did exactly what that ATC did in the recording...told him how to recover from a spin. He was reprimanded by his superiors for it, but later thanked by the kid's dad for saving his son's life. Given the proximity of this occurance to me (less than 50 miles), I would not be surprised at all if that recording was the actual incident my instrutor told me about, and that was his voice on the radio. I'll have to listen again...

That's kinda creepy.

Edited to add: That's not my instructor's voice. That means this scenario happened more than once that an ATC had to tell a pilot how to recover their own plane from a spin. Eegad.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[freeflir29 0]

I certainly don't remember ever reading or hearing about scream "I'm going to crash" into the mic as an emergency procedure. I did think the ATC guy was REALLY overly nice on the phone though. He didn't once mention that maybe bowling was a better sport for that guy.

[pilotdave 0]

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I'm sorry but I laughed almost uncontrollabley listening to this freakin moron. Who let him fly in the first place!

There is no IQ test to be a pilot.

He thought he was seconds from dying. Probably an inexperienced pilot. I don't see what IQ has to do with anything.

Ever read the study "178 seconds to live?". The study found that the average pilot, with or without an instrument rating, lasted 178 seconds before losing control of their aircraft (flight simulator) when they encountered inadvertant IMC.

I don't find anything funny about it.

Dave

[goose491 0]

Not funny at all. But that 178 seconds is to loss of control of the aircraft... not to loss of control of ones self.

The pilot lost his head. It`s understood, as you have pointed out, that you will lose control of the aircraft. Flying in IMC is sometimes more about repeated regaining of control rather then maintaining it. But your head... your head man, you`ve got to keep it cool.

I don`t think there is any defending this guys blatant loss of wits. He clearly had no idea what was going on even after the incident. The third recording is basically the flight service guy toying with him.

So maybe there`s nothing funny about it... NOW. But IMO, this pilot is to be a laughing stock.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[pilotdave 0]

My point was that the guy literally thought he was about to die. He said at the end that he saw he was next to an antenna, so he knew he was very very low and out of control. We can all hope we'd react a little better than that, but I'll bet many wouldn't.

If the guy knew what was going on, he wouldn't have lost control. Obviously all he knew was he couldn't see anything and the plane was out of control. He said he rolled and was in a spin. What makes you think that didn't happen?

Would you be laughing at him if he'd crashed right after the first few seconds of the recording, when he was screaming mayday?

Dave

[freeflir29 0]

I have had the shit scared out of me in a plane. It was my first cross country. Got under the edge of a thunderstorm while looking for the airport. It NEVER crossed my mind to scream at a controller that I was going to crash. In fact..........the radio never crossed my mind. It took everything I could to keep control of the aircraft. About 10 minutes later when I had regained control of the aircraft and landed safely my hands were shaking like leaves. A little differen't scenario but this guy screaming for help and NOT flying the airplane wasn't helping anyone.

[pilotdave 0]

I agree screaming didn't help. It wasn't even a controller he was screaming at. But I'd say it's kind of a nice thing to let SOMEONE know you're about to crash. Coulda saved a lot of time and money if they had to do a search for the wreckage...

Did you think you were about to die?

Dave

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Of course not, he hadnt met me yet, his life wasnt complete...

I dont agree with what Clay is saying in regards to this person and making fun of him , however I see a point, if your busy crying about it, how is that going to help him when he should be fighting.

Kinda like when everyone says "you fly the canopy all the way until it is on the gound and you are on the ground safe" theres no time to sit there and start yelling to people. Just fly.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Hooknswoop 19]

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My point was that the guy literally thought he was about to die. He said at the end that he saw he was next to an antenna, so he knew he was very very low and out of control. We can all hope we'd react a little better than that, but I'll bet many wouldn't.

That is because don't realize how easy it is to die and don't actually expect to for the foreseeable future. These are the same people that change their lives after a close call because reality is forced upon them. It shouldn't take a near death experience to realize you are going to die.

As for panicing, Rule #1: Never Panic

Just don't do it, ever. Realizing that you are going to die is the first step in preventing panic. And that gives you the best chance to live. Ironic but true.

Go look death in the eye, it isn't all that bad.

Derek

[goose491 0]

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Would you be laughing at him if he'd crashed right after the first few seconds of the recording, when he was screaming mayday?

Don`t think me insensitive.

I`d not laugh at the tragic loss of life. (having said that, don`t we all still get a good laugh at the Darwin Awards every year?)

Let`s face it, this guy is an idiot.

He said he saw an antenna yes... his altimeter would have done a better job at telling him he was low... and getting lower.

I`m laughing because that`s what I do when faced with a fool. The guys a fool and he made it but for the grace of God and some very very good help on the radio. Just like skydiving, flying isn`t for everyone. If I have a malfuncion and it is learned that instead of keeping my cool and doing what I was trained to do, all I did was scream "I`m gonna crash" all the way down to CYPRES fire... I think there would be a few comments/jokes made about my itelligence. I think a few people may suggest that skydiving isn`t for me.

I think, after hearing this guy, that flying isn`t really for him.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[NickDG 23]

Gorden Baxter, a writer for FLYING Magazine before he died said, too many pilots are lost when they don't take the microphone close and yell, "Ok, now I'm not messing around, help me man, help me!" In this case it turned out for the good . . .

And, as evidenced by the 3rd recording, the kid launched again. I'll bet his rudder knees are a bit wobbliy. And good on him . . .

NickD BASE 194

[anewempire 0]

the first thing i was told when i started to skydive was that "panicking is a choice. don't do it. panicking is how you will get killed." whenever something happens in the sky and i feel myself start to panic that just shoots into my mind and i automatically keep cool and think about what i'm doing and what's going on. that guy was freaking out on the radio

[NickDG 23]

It's all about not making the second mistake that will kill you . . .

NickD BASE 194

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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He said at the end that he saw he was next to an antenna, so he knew he was very very low and out of control.

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He said he rolled and was in a spin. What makes you think that didn't happen?

The only thing for certain was that he lost control and didn't know what was happening. If you listen carefully to the third recording with the FAA, he was still unsure. He was just agreeing with anything said to him.

I doubt the two items I mentioned above did occur, at least how the pilot perceived them. Here's why:

The recording was 2.5 minutes long.

He mentioned that the stall warning horn was going off, and that he only heard that upon landing. I believe this caused him to believe he was low. He equated the stall warning horn with ground proximity. Listen to the recording again, I think you'll agree.

He reported that he saw a tower 'next to' him. I don't have the time or ambition at this moment to whip out my charts, but I can't picture what 'tower' he could possibly be referring to. At any rate, let's say it's a 1250' tower AGL is nearly sea level in much of this part of the state; again, I'd have to check Burlington, but Western Washington by the coast doesn't have much to elevation...our DZ is 23' above sea level. His 'next to' was perhaps seeing the tower out his left window while nearly on his side, several hundred feet above it.

Last...say he was truly next to a tower at 1250'. How many airplanes that a new private pilot will be flying can spin (losing altitude), roll, and then be straight and level at 3000' within 2.5 minutes?

I have no doubt that he was terrified and feared for his life. But the numbers don't seem to add up in my extremely limited career at the controls.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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"http://www.aviation.uiuc.edu/institute/research/arl/technical-reports/178SecondstoLive.html"]"178 seconds to live?"[/url]. The study found that the average pilot, with or without an instrument rating, lasted 178 seconds before losing control of their aircraft (flight simulator) when they encountered inadvertant IMC.

I don't find anything funny about it.

Neither do I. My "IQ" comment was the result of 21 years as an air traffic controller, and the guy who called the pilot a "moron.". You see the same personalities and flaws in the air as you do on the DZ or freeway. Sorry, but sometimes I feel I've earned my cynicism the old fashioned way. You'd be surprised at what happens on the radar scope.

That study you quote. I was told it was sub-hundred hour pilots flying a Bonanza simulator, maybe not the most stable IFR platform. Maybe not representative of a, say, 200 hour pilot in a Skyhawk. Still not a good idea.

I've worked VFR lost in IMC piots more than once. Not fun. A coworker in SLC had a pilot ice up, stall and go in. He said the transmit button was held down all the way to impact. It was bad. It's hard to say how anyone of us will go, quietly or hollering. May it still be a long, long time before any of us find out.