SARLDO 0 #1 June 30, 2008 The vitals... My reserve will be due a repack in early August and my cypress battery is due in late September. The Cypress hits its life limit in February and will no longer be usable. The battery has shown no signs of being weak (not used all that often). The question... When I get my repack, will it be good for the full cycle or does a rigger have to call the due date as of the cypress battery due date? I intend to replace the cypress when it is no longer air-worthy but do not see the logic in replacing the battery at this time. Anybody know?"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens MB#4300 Dudeist Skydiver #68 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #2 June 30, 2008 From the user guide. "Each battery which has been installed in CYPRES has to be replaced after 2 years at the latest." From the U.S. FAR's 105.43 "c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device." But, rigger interpret this differently. Some riggers will pack, seal, and date with the current date a rig with a cypres whose battery will expire during the 120 day inspection cycle period. They feel they are certifying it for the date they pack it, it's legal then, and it's up to the owner to ensure it's used legally. Other riggers, like myself, won't pack a reserve with a cypres battery (or cypres) that will expire during the 120 day cycle. I know it won't be legal through the cycle, don't expect the user to have the cypres pulled or battery changed mid cycle and don't want my name on it when it's illegal, even if it's not my fault. Some riggers predate the card to make the rig out of date when the cypres or battery dies. Some riggers argue there is no appropriate way under the FAR's or AC's to do this. So, even if the rigger packs it as is and records the date when packed it is not legal to jump for the 120 day cycle. Most riggers I know either will pack it and leave it up to you to follow the law, or not pack it without a new battery now. Only a few I've heard of will short date it. Of course you can have the cypres removed and jump without it. Or buy a new one now and sell the old one with 7 months left on it. BTW cypres battery dates are recorded by the month, not day. So Sept 2 is the same as Sept 28.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #3 June 30, 2008 QuoteThe vitals... My reserve will be due a repack in early August and my cypress battery is due in late September. The Cypress hits its life limit in February and will no longer be usable. The battery has shown no signs of being weak (not used all that often). The question... When I get my repack, will it be good for the full cycle or does a rigger have to call the due date as of the cypress battery due date? I intend to replace the cypress when it is no longer air-worthy but do not see the logic in replacing the battery at this time. Anybody know? Terry's answer is dead on. I'm a rigger and will be in your same situation in October even though the cypres doesn't go out until early 2009 (Feb, I think), the battery is done in Oct. So, instead of buying a new batter to get through a few months, I'm going to suck it up and get a new cypres 2 at that time. I won't be happy about spending all that money on a cypres, but that's just life sometimes. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARLDO 0 #4 June 30, 2008 Thanks to both. I thought I might get a repack due to match the battery date of 30 Sep but I do not want to make a rigger uncomfortable in signing this off this way so I might as well bite it now and replace the unit. I was hoping to put off the cost for a little longer but it looks like Christmas is coming early for me."Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens MB#4300 Dudeist Skydiver #68 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #5 June 30, 2008 it's nice that the C2 has removed the battery as another due date to worry about/spend money on. Certainly you don't want to spend for 2 years worth of battery that you can only use for 6 months. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #6 July 1, 2008 I wonder if you could find someone who has a cypres that is expiring and still has sufficient time remaining on their battery. I know I pulled a battery with 1 year left on it from an expired cypres - of course it went back to the owner... Of course you'd have to read the fine print rules to ensure you are allowed to do that. -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #7 July 1, 2008 Quote Some riggers argue there is no appropriate way under the FAR's or AC's to do this. You forgot one... A user buys a battery for a unit that has 1 year left on it. He uses it for a year. He then gives/sells the battery to another user who needs one year left. Now you have a battery transfer where the battery only has one year left...I kind of wish that there was a way to notate the card so that a battery with almost a full pack cycle left could be used. When the packs change from 120 to 180 days - this will be more of an issue. If the battery "month" does not matter by 30 days as Jan 1 and Jan 31 are both the same, as you pointed out a savvy skydiver will ask their rigger to pack/change batteries on the 1st of the month so they don't lose 30 days on the battery... So if the system already has a 1/3 of a pack cycle "slop" built into it, shouldn't there be some way to make this work for all involved with a "packjob expire date" so I could pack a rig, 30 days later open it up to remove an expired component and reseal for the remaining term without a full inspect and repack.... When we hit 180 days on a packjob, it will suck when someone has 179 days left on their battery and I have to change it because it will expire in the packjob when the system has 30 days of "slop" with no day of month in the month/year bat due date.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #8 July 1, 2008 Quote Quote Some riggers argue there is no appropriate way under the FAR's or AC's to do this. You forgot one... A user buys a battery for a unit that has 1 year left on it. He uses it for a year. He then gives/sells the battery to another user who needs one year left. Now you have a battery transfer where the battery only has one year left...I kind of wish that there was a way to notate the card so that a battery with almost a full pack cycle left could be used. When the packs change from 120 to 180 days - this will be more of an issue. If the battery "month" does not matter by 30 days as Jan 1 and Jan 31 are both the same, as you pointed out a savvy skydiver will ask their rigger to pack/change batteries on the 1st of the month so they don't lose 30 days on the battery... So if the system already has a 1/3 of a pack cycle "slop" built into it, shouldn't there be some way to make this work for all involved with a "packjob expire date" so I could pack a rig, 30 days later open it up to remove an expired component and reseal for the remaining term without a full inspect and repack.... When we hit 180 days on a packjob, it will suck when someone has 179 days left on their battery and I have to change it because it will expire in the packjob when the system has 30 days of "slop" with no day of month in the month/year bat due date.... I didn't forget. I didn't want to confuse things more for the original poster. When Airtec had a bad batch of batteries back around 1999 a bunch of my customers got off cycle on batteries and service. We had some batteries with "time on them" floating around. Many riggers, including myself, will do what you described. Pack a rig, and open it later to change an AAD component, then reseal it without redating it. Most riggers I've asked don't have any issue with this. The problem is if you can trust the customer to come back! But what almost every rigger involved with PIA does not tolerate is a different rigger opening their pack job, doing something, relcoseing and resealing it and not recording it on the card. Also, as I alluded to, some riggers will predate a pack job so it does expire when the battery or whatever does. In other words pack on july 1 but date it in may to cover an expiring batter. Others have pointed out that there is no FAR or AC that spedifically allows a rigger to do this. But, if you have that kind of relationship with your customer this is an option. 180 day cycle will add to the grief for the cypres'. Cypres II's have a 6 month 'window' for service so won't really be affected.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARLDO 0 #9 July 1, 2008 What is needed is a change to the airworthyness of the battery to be due upon next reserve repack after 2 yrs (Cypress 1) installed time. Max a battery would be installed is 2 yrs, 4 mo. Post 180 day repack, go to a 24 - 27 mo cycle at least. Give jumpers at least 4 mo of a repack if their battery is dropping dead, but riggers not be allowed to certify a rig if battery hitting the 24 mo installed time during the month of the pack job/inspection. So, if the battery dies in Feb and your packing a reserve in Jan, the rig could be certified until the end of May. Make sense? This is how we schedule other aspects of aviation maintenance, why not this too? Build in some flexibility to the scheduled maintenance process. But hey, what do I know?"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens MB#4300 Dudeist Skydiver #68 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
