Javelin Odessey Reservepack

[birdynamnam 28]

recently bought a used 2004 model, PD143R reserve.

It was time to repack yesterday; found a rigger and so I laid the rig on the ground and pulled the reservehandle to observe the action. The pilotchute jumped up reeeally lazy only about 4-5 inches and simply laid down on one side and came to rest directly on top of the reserve container. Not impressive ! As it turned out the bridle was folded in a V, but placed under the reservecontainer flaps. Ref. to the manual the bridle must be placed in a V OUTSIDE the container right under the pilotchute.

Is this something riggers see often?

Compared to my old system (French Atom) that pilotchute spring is very weak. The old one could easily knock out someone, I know that the theory is that the conical Javelin one should simply bounce off to one side and then take off.. But in a wingsuitjump there might be less airflow. Hmm I guess I have to get used to this weak spring and I will make sure to check myself that the reservebridle is packed outside the container.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

I'm sure someone will correct me... ... but spring tension/force on reserve pilot chutes has always been somewhat subjective. As in, up to the individual rigger in the field to say whether its good or not. I have seen reserve pilot chutes removed from service because of weak spring tension, however, more likely, I've seen them pulled from service because of a tear in the F111 or mesh that makes up the pilot chute.


As for mis-routed reserve bridles, I've seen this too a couple of times too. IMO, its due to a rigger following what he or she "thinks" is the correct reserve bridle routing for the rig they're packing, but its really for some other system... i.e. they're thaking what they think from another type of rig and applying it to a different kind of rig they're now packing with out consulting the manual for the rig they've currently got in hand; this is "bad". Heck, a few years ago pictures of a Javelin that had been packed like a Vector 2 with the Pilot Cute totally under all the flaps circulated... either it was a hoax, or some rigger didn't really know what they were doing and didn't read the manual.


Anyway, you could have your rig repacked, with the reserve bridle routed correctly, have the rigger close it and then pull the reserve handle again to see how it behaves then. Hopefully you'd be more pleased with the results, if not, then maybe the spring is weak and in need of replacement?

[birdynamnam 28]

I agree on what you comment. regarding the pilotchute is just 4 years old, so I guess it is as it should be

[councilman24 37]

Do riggers see what? This particular error or rigging errors in general.

I've never seen a rigger make the error you've described. Most of us have packed enough Javelins to know how to do it. But, if someone used to packing Vectors never read the Javelin manual they might do this.

As to PC launchs. Most of the Javelins I service will launch the PC 6 or 8 feet horizontally before falling much. In other words if the owner points it at my face wearing it and standing I usually catch it around my head at 6 to 8 feet.

Various rigs have various strength PC's. One common way to check the tension is to put it on a bathroom scale and compress it to 1 in high. They can range from around 20 to 40 lbs. and be within manufacturer's spec.

In the most recent Quasar II service bulletin Strong is replacing the old PC's with one with a stronger spring. Launching through the flaps was the issue I discovered (rediscovered) mainly based on the steel springs in the flaps. But Ted decided a stronger spring and kicker flap was warrented.

IIRC Sandy replaced some Talon PC's because of either bad springs or simply to supply a stronger spring.

When Bill Booth went from Vector I to Vector II he greatly increased the spring tension. At one of the 1990's PIA symposiums he said the new spring was in response to customer demend and he thought it was too strong. He believed it jumped too high, the rotary air flow behind a jumper hit the wide bridle and pulled it back down. He blamed the strong spring and the wide bridle. We all suggested sewing the first 6-8 feet of the bridle to 1" wide.

I've never packed an Atom but the Vector is about the strongest one I deal with.

I HAVE removed a PC from service because its spring was wimpy. Hmmm, maybe twice.

As above, try it packed properly. Still not happy? Try the scale test and contact Sunpath to see what it should be. IIRC theirs are on the lower side of the range above.

And just be glad it's not a surplus MA-1.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[birdynamnam 28]

Thanks. Mine will launch 6-8 feet horisontally. I did test that. So maybe it was the bridle stuck under the flaps that held it back.

[councilman24 37]

I'm sure the bridle did retard it. All of the rigs that have bridle under flaps the last 6 to 8 feet on top somewhere. Your last rigger should have a talk with the previous rigger.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 643]

IIRC Sandy replaced some Talon PC's because of either bad springs or simply to supply a stronger spring.

.......................................................................

"Talon" and "Skyhook" reserve pilot chutes had weak springs with zinc or cadmium plating. They were supposed to be returned to Rigging Innovations to be re-sprung or replaced. Replacement springs were painted black. Later production Magnum pilot chutes (the last few Talon1 and Telesis 1) have black springs. More modern Stealth pilot chutes (Flexon, Talon 2, Voodoo, Telesis 2, etc.) have red springs. The new springs all push much more than 20 pounds. Ergo you should never repack a Rigging Innovations pilot chute with a silver-colored spring. That Service Bulletin was issued in the early 1990s.

[riggerrob 643]

And just be glad it's not a surplus MA-1.

....................................................................

The old MIL SPEC - for MA-1 pilot chutes requires an 18 pound spring.
MA-1s still work great in older (Wonderhog and SST Racer), looser containers. Their performance only suffers when you stuff them into smaller, tighter containers like Mirages.
Oh!
Wait a minute!
There is a label inside the Mirage reserve container reminding riggers to only install genuine Mirage pilot chutes.

[diablopilot 2]

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I've never packed an Atom but the Vector is about the strongest one I deal with.

Try an Eclipse! Just don't slip!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[everymansaved 0]

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I've never packed an Atom but the Vector is about the strongest one I deal with.

I've found that the Mirage springs are no match for the Vectors. I'm usually hardpressed to get a Mirage p/c pinned down unless I have the container up against a wall.

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[erdnarob 1]

That's not the only rig with weak pilot chute. It seems too many manufacturers rely on the relative wind and not enough on a good launch to get the pilot chute in the air stream. From my point of view it's a mistake since in a jumper's back there is a partial vacuum or burble which can "sucks" the pilot chute in and keep it there for few seconds. Generally, when the jumper starts to wonder what happens and look up and doing so modify the air flow around him, the pilot chute clears up but if that happens you have lost a lot of valuable vertical distance which can save your life in some case.
Anyway, having a strong spring pilot chute is way better in order to clear that burble especially with a wing suit I guess.
The strength of a pilot is not necessarely subjective, here is my trick: Use a bathroom scale and put the pilot chute spring on it and compresse it until it is say 2 inches tick. My Vector III pilot chute force when compressed 2 inches thick is between 40 and 45 lbs. Again as a rigger, i can say no manufacturer matches such a force. There is shorter or longer pilot chutes but not as strong as the Vector one. I was testing my Vector III reserve pilot chute launch by cutting the loop the other side of the bottom wall of the reserve (On a Vector you have access to that space) by using a flat hook knife and a pull up cord getting out under the yoke and got a launch of 5 feet high straight up (see the 2 pictures in attachment). I know on the other hand that all small narrow rig can have a pilot chute launch problem.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Yeah, what is it, them and the Mirage where the spring in the reserve pilot chute is so strong you damn near need an arbor press to close the container and then if ever used they don't really launch the pilot chute... they just jettison the rig & jumper in the other direction!

[klingeme 1]

Along with the strongest spring on the market, the meshless pilot chute (on your UPT Container) will properly inflate when sideways where the mesh pilot chutes will bleed air until upright.

Mark Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

[skydiverek 63]

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Along with the strongest spring on the market, the meshless pilot chute (on your UPT Container) will properly inflate when sideways where the mesh pilot chutes will bleed air until upright.

Mark Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

And what would this reserve pilotchute do (pictures in the link)?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1563649#1563649

[diablopilot 2]

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Yeah, what is it, them and the Mirage where the spring in the reserve pilot chute is so strong you damn near need an arbor press to close the container and then if ever used they don't really launch the pilot chute... they just jettison the rig & jumper in the other direction!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Along with the strongest spring on the market,

Er, nope.

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the meshless pilot chute (on your UPT Container) will properly inflate when sideways where the mesh pilot chutes will bleed air until upright.

Funny, when Bill explained it to me, the theory is the lack of mesh is supposed to help "right" the P/C sooner, but it doesn't "inflate" while on it's side. That would be physically impossible.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[klingeme 1]

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Along with the strongest spring on the market,

Er, nope.

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the meshless pilot chute (on your UPT Container) will properly inflate when sideways where the mesh pilot chutes will bleed air until upright.

Funny, when Bill explained it to me, the theory is the lack of mesh is supposed to help "right" the P/C sooner, but it doesn't "inflate" while on it's side. That would be physically impossible.

The air flowing into it (righting itself) is the beginning of the inflation. The mesh just bleeds air, whereas the meshless holds the air, thus righting it and speeding up the inflation.

[diablopilot 2]

Yeah, that's what *I* said.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.