Gato 0 #1 May 27, 2008 It's getting close to the time when I'll be buying my first rig, and I've been offered the following deal: Vector (II, I think) DOM October 1988 - Less than 60 jumps on it. Looks really good, no wear on 3-rings, but virtually no padding in the leg straps. Has B-12 snaps and a Vector II reserve pilot chute. Raven III Reserve - Unsure of age or repacks, but never deployed. Raven IV Main - Same number of jumps as container, probably close to same DOM. The container IS ultra clean, Cypres mod done, no RSL and no BOC. Harness will have to be stretched by my rigger for my size/shape. I'm certain the seller is a stand-up guy who only makes about 3 jumps every couple of weeks, and I know he's not been using this container. Here's the kicker: he's asking for around $1500 for this setup, but I'll have to spend another $235 for mods, and I still won't have an AAD to put in it. I would rather fly a 9-cell than a 7, and I have a VERY crispy PD230 available to me, which I can get for around $450. So my questions for you wise wheelers-n-dealers are as follows: What would you consider to be a non-insulting offer for this rig? How hard is it to sell an old Raven IV main? Just for clarification, I know I've seen newer complete rigs (with AAD) for sale for less than what I'd spend here ($1735 before AAD), and I don't have to buy this one (READ: I have not bought it, and then asked if I got a good deal.) I also know I can get a brand new Dolphin for under a grand. While I'm on the subject, if anyone knows about a container and reserve suitable for my size (exit weight, 235 lbs.), I'd be happy to hear of it.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 May 27, 2008 I'm sure he's real proud of it but he's asking way too much. Clean or not, it is 20 years old. Assuming a 1988 DOM for everything I'd figure $800 for the whole thing, and that's being generous. The container is worth $200, tops. Reserve, maybe $400. Main, $200 tops. There's also the fact that a 1988 Vector II isn't very freefly safe, but that's only an issue if you intend to freefly. Keep looking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 May 27, 2008 Don't buy a 20 year old container and reserve. I'm sure it's nice, and looks great, but just don't. Being 235 lbs, you'll be going fast on every jump, and being freefly friendly would be a good thing for you. Also, don't buy an F-111 canopy like a Raven or a PD230. Even if it's got low jumps, just don't. Look for something zero-p, you'll be much happier. I'm sure you can find something 10 years old for the same money. It may have more jumps on it, but the newer stuff just works better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #4 May 27, 2008 Quote I'm sure he's real proud of it but he's asking way too much. Clean or not, it is 20 years old That's kind-of what I figured - and I KNOW it'd piss him off if I offered him $800 for it. Thanks, Lisa!T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #5 May 27, 2008 QuoteAlso, don't buy an F-111 canopy like a Raven or a PD230. Even if it's got low jumps, just don't. Look for something zero-p, you'll be much happier. A lot of people at my DZ have used F-111 canopies as their first one - I think it's kind-of a tradition. Not that I agree with it whole-heartedly, and I've not yet made a decision about what I'd most like. I've seen a few people fly an F-111 canopy for 6 months or a year, then go through the demo process that most folks do to determine what they want to fly. I'm not sure how many jumps they make in a year. This can, although not always, coincide with a substantial downsize. This is the problem I have with it. One of the smartest (and safest) skydivers I know got himself a Sabre2 170 as his first main, and subsequently put 500 jumps on it before demoing other canopies, and downsizing to a 150. That does seem to make sense, but he was also trained on ZP canopies as a student, and I think that is relevant. I've been flying only F-111 up to now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't F-111 have very similar characteristics to ZP when it's new?T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #6 May 27, 2008 Quote I KNOW it'd piss him off if I offered him $800 for it. One thing that I have stopped worrying about, as I have grown older, is offending someone with an offer to buy something. You never know what someone will accept, and if they don't accept an offer, does it really matter whether they are saying, "No Thanks", or, "@#% No, you *%#-%&*". And, even though I'm a fan of newbies buying righteous old, used gear, I too would draw the line at this one. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #7 May 27, 2008 QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but doesn't F-111 have very similar characteristics to ZP when it's new? When it's very new, like the first jump. But, not only is the fabric different and less efficient the airfoil (wing shape) is different between most ZP canopies and older ravens or PD non zp mains. There are some riggers who wouldn't even pack this rig at 20 years old. If you even think about this double check whether it's a super raven or an original raven. If it's an original raven stay away. If it's a super raven it's still a 20 year old super raven. This applies to the main also. I think they are super ravens in 1988 but would have to check. When I busted my leg up in 1987 I bought a Raven IV to start back on. Shortly changed to a Manta (could run at all). Later my first zp canopy was a sabre 190 in a different rig. When I wanted a guarenteed soft landing, I'd grab the 190 over the 288 Manta. The difference in fabric AND DESIGN. For reference 7 years ago I bought a 1995 or so Vector II, PD reserve, and PD 260 non zp main (200 jumps) for $1500.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
siddacious 0 #8 May 27, 2008 I paid around 1100 for my first rig, which was/is a Para-Flite EOS (common response: "they make containers?!") with a triathalon 190 and PISA Tempo 170 reserve. That said, I replaced the container in a hurry (just say no to exposed risers!) and the main when it was appropriate. I wouldn't have purchased the rig if it didn't have the triathalon, as it is relatively desireable (despite sitting in my closet as I write this). None of the components in the rig you mention are terribly desirable, so I wouldn't offer anything over $750. Closer to $500 would be approaching being a 'deal'.A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #9 May 27, 2008 Thanks for all your responses, folks! They confirm my feelings about the rig. This is a lot like guitar gear I sometimes deal in; somebody comes in with an import guitar from 81, and wants to modify the shit out of it. Two months and $200 later, he wants to trade it in on a new guitar, and it's only worth the cost of the new parts. I think he just let the rig sit too long without trying to sell it. If only I'd been jumping in 1992....... Incidentally, does anybody know how much a Vector II sold for when new in '88? It would be interesting to me, as used music gear is tagged for half its original MSRP, and I'd like to know how this compares to used jumping gear.T.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #10 May 28, 2008 QuoteIncidentally, does anybody know how much a Vector II sold for when new in '88? It would be interesting to me, as used music gear is tagged for half its original MSRP, and I'd like to know how this compares to used jumping gear. Retail price was $740 at the time (without options) Mark Klingelhoefer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites