How many bad landings is ok for every 100 jumps?

[FrancoR 0]

Hello Everyone,

How many bad landings are ok for a licensed skydiver (A-license) to have every 100 jumps?

By bad landing i mean everything where more than your feet touch the ground. It does not matter if there was a special situation like an unintentional downwind landing, somebody running around the landing area or a landing outside of the dropzone. All of these things are things that happen everyday. If you are being shot at while you are landing thats a different story, i won't count that.

Oh, tandems don't count!

Reason i am asking is because some people seem to be pretty comfortable with quite a lot of bad landings and i want to get a feel to what the general consensus is.

Franco

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[Baksteen 84]

Face plants? Yes, those are bad landings. Of those, I'd say less than 1 every 100 jumps.
I immediately have to add that I already exceeded that number by a fair margin, but it is a good thing to try to achieve.

However, in a PLF "more than your feet" touches the ground too. Once again, a PLF is NOT a bad landing.
I'd say go ahead and have 100 PLFs in 100 jumps if that's what it takes to land safely and without injury.
Please PLF if the situation warrants it and for fuck's sake, do not try to stand up landings prematurely.
PLF is NOT for wussies/students only - a cast or casket looks nowhere near as cool as a well executed PLF.

ETA: at your jump numbers you should know this better than I do, so I assume you just didn't choose your words carefully.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[DrewEckhardt 0]

It depends what you're doing.

If you're learning to make carving turns whlie landing you're probably going to get a bit low and run out of lift before getting back up to ground level a few times. You have to learn some time and it's not going to be before getting an A license unless you're real lazy about taht. If you're doing down-wind distance runs with a stiff tail wind under a small parachute you're probably not going to stand up. That's an intentional trade-off. You gotta make sacrafices to win.

Otherwise, your landings shouldn't just be standups - they should be pretty. You should be able to jump a white rig without worrying.

Obviously, landing safely is more important than looking good. It's a lot less painful to PLF a hard landing than trying to stand it up. You can have your rig washed within a few days but it can take months or a year plus for bones and soft tissues to heal (with surgical help).

[FrancoR 0]

Ok, i did not think of PLFs and other intentional non feet only landings of course those are good landings too. Same goes for anything when you try something new.

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[antonija 0]

About 50% percent of my landings (maybe even more) end up with me rolling on the ground. I usually have to listen about it afterwards, but it's still much better to do that than sit quietly with sprained ankle because you wanted to look good.

I am quite comfortable with that. Other than having a laugh afterwards (if you can't laugh at yourself you're doing it wrong) and no broken bones, the only thing that gets "hurt" is a container (and a wash cycle will fix that in no time).

On the other hand most people I know will find PLF somewhat shameful... They try to stand every landing, and most of them have problems with ankles, knees and back. My container doesn't :p

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Is a PLF after geting an unexpected gust "bad"?
Is a standup 2 feet from hitting the hangar "good"?

Some of the landings I was happiest about were fairly ugly looking, until you consider that the wind picked up beyond what I would have chosen to jump while we were climbing to altitude. Being able to land near my chosen target without injury made it a great landing.

Others, while standup, demonstrated a lack of awareness of my surroundings, current conditions, canopy drive, available landing area, ect.

So while I understand your question, I need a more detailed definition of "good" and "bad".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

My definition of "good landing":

I walk away unhurt.
No one else gets hurt.

Given this definition, anything less than 100% "good landings" is a big problem.

There are many ways to get a good landing...and a PLF is one of them.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[FrancoR 0]

Wow, this turns out to be more complicated then in thougth.

If you PLF when something unexpected/unusal happens then you are doing what you were taught when you got licensed.
If you still happen to jump a round canopy If you PLF on half of you jumps you either draw bad luck on your side and have gusts, damaged canopies, downwind landings, broken steering lines and all the other reasons to chose PLF way to often or you should work on landing on your feet. A PLF on Asphalt can hurt, a friend of mine has had serious landing problems for a while and was never willing to work on them or get a bigger canopy. This Summer he landed on a hard packed gravel road and was not able to jump for a couple weeks. He is willing to work on it now. antonija, i don't now if you jump a round :-) , but if you don't please get some coaching canopy control courses are fun and nearly everyone can learn from them, i took one myself this summer.

A stand up landing 2 feet away from the hangar is close to bad, but i will call it good. If that happens on every jump the DZ should think of moving the hangar

Franco

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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About 50% percent of my landings (maybe even more) end up with me rolling on the ground. I usually have to listen about it afterwards, but it's still much better to do that than sit quietly with sprained ankle because you wanted to look good.

I am quite comfortable with that. Other than having a laugh afterwards (if you can't laugh at yourself you're doing it wrong) and no broken bones, the only thing that gets "hurt" is a container (and a wash cycle will fix that in no time).

On the other hand most people I know will find PLF somewhat shameful... They try to stand every landing, and most of them have problems with ankles, knees and back. My container doesn't :p

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your choice of canopy.

[BIGUN 1,499]

Assuming bad != broken bones...
It's not about the number; it's about seeing a downward cycle of less bad landings as time goes on and with more jumps.
Some students working on their "A" License will have more bad landings than others for various reasons.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Is a PLF after geting an unexpected gust "bad"?

In over a decade and 1500 parachute landings I don't think I've ever experienced or seen an "unexpected gust"

I have seen lots of people reach in the wrong direction (perhaps after starting to run) and claim there was a gust after they stumbled.

If the winds are so unstable they're going to blow you over you shouldn't be jumping.

I used to jump with a guy who rarely made stand up landings, and I was OK with that because he only had one leg. I tried a round parachute once and didn't land in the pea gravel. Apart from situations like that, you're doing something wrong if you get to where you should PLF.

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Some of the landings I was happiest about were fairly ugly looking, until you consider that the wind picked up beyond what I would have chosen to jump while we were climbing to altitude.

As long as you're still going forwards a bit you need better technique.

[diablopilot 2]

Are you still having fun? Are you hurting yourself? Are you trying to learn more and get better at it?

If you have a "Yes, No, Yes" answer for those questions, then you're doing ok.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[FrancoR 0]

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I used to jump with a guy who rarely made stand up landings, and I was OK with that because he only had one leg.

I also used to jump with a guy who only had one leg. I don't recall him ever landing on his but or with a PLF.

If it does not cost anything you are the product.

[mr_music11 0]

I have learned in my VERY short time in skydiving, that most of my pre concieved ideas of what the skydive to be.. and what it ends up being are 2 different things. Not always varying greatly, but enough to notice that there is always a difference. Of course in my mind I have the "perfect" jump is planned. Learing what the difference was with each jump makes me a safer skydiver. Now.. onto your question, and I dont really have a solid answer as I have made some landings that you would quantify as "good".... however just walking away from some of those landings, I knew that it was a landing where I walked away, not that it was "good". I guess IMHO I would say that you should concentrate on perfecting ALL parts of your skydiving and you will find that ALL of your skills will increase, including your landing abilities. thaks for reading.. blue skies

If flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive.

[antonija 0]

My jump number is very low and I still jump 280 student canopy, so I don't think the size is the problem here.

The thing is that I'm used to falling from my youth (other sports I did where it was preferable to "PLF" because fighting to stay on your feet would result in serious injuries in 99%), so when I think ground is still coming in too fast I just absorb vertical component a bit and then roll on the ground.
I did try to stand up few of landings that seemed to fast (vertically) for me and I could feel them in my knees and my back. To me they weren't worth it. I'd rather choose muddy container that busted knee or back.

Ofcourse if you have nowhere to land but concrete/asphalt I stand them up... but only because PLFing on asphalt would hurt more :p

In time I wan't to be able to stand up my landings without feeling my back being squished and my knees wanting to pop out, so at this point I concentrate mostly on my flares. I try to get as many of them on the film and see what I'm doing wrong. If my instructor can land his 100sqf thingy I should be able to stand up a 280 :p

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[tbrown 26]

a bad landing is one that injures you. If you can walk away from it, you've had a good landing.

By the way, you left the "fuck you" option out of your poll, so I didn't answer. That's what I say to people who make a show of "noticing" mud and/or grass stains on any part of me.

God gave you two middle fingers - USE THEM !!!

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[billvon 3,123]

>a bad landing is one that injures you. If you can walk away from it, you've
>had a good landing.

I'd disagree with that. If you are not fully in control of your parachute, and you did not end up where you wanted - you had a bad landing. A landing in front of a taxiing Otter, or a landing where you landed downwind and cut a bunch of people off, is not a good landing even if you don't get hurt.

The goal is to put you and your canopy where you want them to be when you want them to be there. If you can do that, it's a good landing. If it's an off-field landing, and you have to land downwind and you intentionally lay it down, that's a good landing. If it's in the main landing area and someone has to turn hard to avoid you because you couldn't figure out the pattern, it's a bad one.

[antonija 0]

Just a quick update on my landings: This weekend I finally got to jump again, asked my instructor to watch&film my landings. It turned out I flared to low and didn't flare all the way (although I flared just about all the way :p). My landings this weekend were 7/7 standups :p.
Also practicing flare high up just to see how much time you have before canopy stalls was good for my confidence with flares.

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[gearless_chris 1]

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Is a PLF after geting an unexpected gust "bad"?

In over a decade and 1500 parachute landings I don't think I've ever experienced or seen an "unexpected gust"

I have seen lots of people reach in the wrong direction (perhaps after starting to run) and claim there was a gust after they stumbled.

If the winds are so unstable they're going to blow you over you shouldn't be jumping.


If you go out in the landing area and video landings all day, you'll end up with hours of video of sudden gusts. It's really funny when the gusts are 180 degrees from each other. It's rare but you do occasionally get left handed people that reach with their left leg/hand. I guess it's like snowboarding where some people do right foot first and some do left.
I wanted to vote for all of them, by what you originally considered a good landing.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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