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iluvtofly

RSL Question

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Here is a great question my rigger asked me one day that really got me thinking....
Say for some reason your pilot chute is unreachable (i.e. the hackey is shoved so far into the pouch you can't get it out). At the same time your reserve handle became dislodged and with all the wind you are unable to find it. What do you do?


Since asking this question in another thread I've gotten in an argument with someone about RSL's. The answer I gave to my rigger, the answer that he said was right and what he was looking for was to pull on your RSL (making sure you pull up on the velcro because pulling down would be damn near impossible) until the pin in your reserve popped.

I have since gotten in an argument that that is not how rsl's work. The person is saying that if the riser itself is not pulling on the rsl then it won't work. But my theory is how is disconnecting the rsl and pulling on it with your hand any different then a riser pulling on it? Or is my rigger with 30+ years experience wrong?

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Or you could trace the reserve ripcord housing down the inside of the main lift web with your left had, find the cable where it comes of of the housing, and pull on the cable.

This is our floating ripcord (main side) procedure for military rigs that use a main ripcord. It works.
Arrive Safely

John

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It's different because there is much more drag on a cutaway canopy than force you can apply pulling on it over your shoulder. In addition you can rotate to a more appropriate geometry (when "hanging" from the riser by the RSL) The geometry is fixed to what ever reach you might have.

Will it work?

I'd say it depends on the RSL. A vector RSL perhaps. The lanyard is sewn to the pin. An older style Javelin or other RSL using a guide ring or two rings, especially two rings, I doubt you'd be able to apply enough force to pull the cable between ring and housing or between the two rings. Usually a two ring system puts a permanent bend in the ripcord cable.

In addtition you may very well have to pull not only against the velcro but against the main riser cover and perhaps another cover, riser or tuck tab.

Ones that pull the cable from between a split housing may very well catch on the end of the housing.

In addition you'd need to release the shackle. This is not an easy thing to do in freefall. It's hard to see, may be hiding, and hard to grab.

Most RSL's are not designed to function as alternative ripcords. Some will work better than others. Better to follow Slot's procedure and trace the housing to the cable. This is designed to work.

Think about it. 2500' and can't find main PC. Try again. Still can't. Decide to open reserve. Look for handle. (Or did you just reach for it the first time?) Can't find it so look again. Give up and try the rsl? Try to find the shackle. When you find it try to get it undone, then pull up?
Hmmmmm, when in this sequence did you hit the ground?

Floating ripcords are not difficult to handle. When we jumped main ripcords, as slot speaks above for the military, floating ripcords were common. Following the housing to the cable and then to the handle or pulling the cable itself was and is the preferred action. Of course on the main you have the reserve to go to next.

So no, this doesn't seem like the best procedure. I would certainly try it hanging in the harness before I'd rely on it in the air.

Of course if this is the only option left, try it. Never give up.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Never said this was the BEST option. But it is A option. What I didn't originally post was that my original answer was to indeed follow the cable down to the reserve handle. But my rigger then gave me the scenario that for one reason or another I was unable to find the handle (say the ball on the end of cable came off and the handle itself disapeared). What would I do then. I came up with the RSL answer. He was just happy that I even thought of that cause it means that I have at least some understanding of how my gear works.

This thread is not about the best solution to the question itself. But whether or not pulling on the RSL would release the reserve or not.

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And my answer is that you may very well not be able to pull a reserve with your RSL.

And I agree if for some reason you have no hope of finding the cable then by all means try it. You didn't offer that portion of the scenario.

BTW if the ball comes off you rigger didn't do HIS job.

In the 80's there were some ripcords, including reserve ripcords, with thermoplastic martin baker style handles. Several of these broke when needed. A friend had his reserve ripcord handle break. He was able to fish the remaining portion out of the elastic ripcord pocket and deploy his reserve.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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...In the 80's there were some ripcords, including reserve ripcords, with thermoplastic martin baker style handles. Several many of these broke when needed.


I recently read through early-80s Parachutists and saw waaaaay to many incidents related to these things.
<>
YMMV

I have a spare reserve ripcord. Hmmmmm...maybe I'll try it on my Javelin at the next re-pack.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Since asking this question in another thread I've gotten in an argument with someone about RSL's. The answer I gave to my rigger, the answer that he said was right and what he was looking for was to pull on your RSL (making sure you pull up on the velcro because pulling down would be damn near impossible) until the pin in your reserve popped.

I have since gotten in an argument that that is not how rsl's work. The person is saying that if the riser itself is not pulling on the rsl then it won't work. But my theory is how is disconnecting the rsl and pulling on it with your hand any different then a riser pulling on it? Or is my rigger with 30+ years experience wrong?



Well, since you were with your rigger I've got to suggest the best answer would have been to try it. You could have put the rig on and pulled the RSL to see how much force would be needed and in what direction. Then you both would have learned the correct answer to your question with your rig.

I'm too lazy to dig out my own rig and try it now (and then reclose the reserve on the off-chance it works), but perhaps I'll give it a shot the next time it needs a repack. Has anybody else actually tried this, or does anybody have a packed rig and want to try it now?

Aside from the specifics of this question, I think the point your rigger was trying to make is that if all the regular procedures have failed and you are hurtling toward the planet at an unsurvivable speed, you should keep working on the problem creatively.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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But my rigger then gave me the scenario that for one reason or another I was unable to find the handle (say the ball on the end of cable came off and the handle itself disapeared). What would I do then. I came up with the RSL answer. He was just happy that I even thought of that cause it means that I have at least some understanding of how my gear works.



I would question the rigger on that logic about the loss of the reserve handle. It just goes contrary to my belief of how the conventional RSL works. Of course I am not a rigger yet so maybe some one can step in and correct me if I am making the wrong assumptions on the setup.

I believe if your swage comes off the end of your reserve ripcord cable then you better pray that you have a AAD of some sort.

I doubt a conventional RSL could pull the pin in this case, it will just pull the handle end of the setup all the way out of the rig and then fall of the cable. The conventional RSL pulls the pin because it is pulling the cable out from between the two rings. The handle side of the cable jams agains the hard housing because the handle will not pass through, so as the cable gets pulled out by the RSL the only other place to give is the pin side.

Right?
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I doubt a conventional RSL could pull the pin in this case, it will just pull the handle end of the setup all the way out of the rig and then fall of the cable. The conventional RSL pulls the pin because it is pulling the cable out from between the two rings. The handle side of the cable jams agains the hard housing because the handle will not pass through, so as the cable gets pulled out by the RSL the only other place to give is the pin side.


I'm not sure. AFAIR my VectorII has pin(or pins?) on the end of the RSL and loop on the ripcord.

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Pulling the RSL is your last resort.
Like Slotperfect said, you are better off trying to trace the floating ripcord handle from the end of its housing.
Pulling most RSLs will open the reserve. The variable is RSL geometry. The first priority is peeling the RSL off your shoulder - towards your helmet. Then it becomes a question of Velcro geometry. Some RSLs have so much Velcro that you will never separate it all while pulling in shear. The least problematic RSLs have no Velcro. Instead, the latest versions of Infinities and Javelins merely hide their RSLs in fold-over channels.
If the ball falls off the end of the ripcord cable, you are F$#@! without the foreplay. In that scenario, the only RSL that will save you is one with a Sigma pin (all Vectors, Microns and Sigmas along with the most recent Javelins).

Valid question and the answer is that pulling most RSLs will save you.

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No one mentioned that some (all?) containers require you to cut-away before the RSL can be activated ...



Why is that, in this case?



Some RSL lanyards have an eye loop that the main cut-away cable runs through to prevent the RSL from being activated by accident. Is this what you were asking?
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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No one mentioned that some (all?) containers require you to cut-away before the RSL can be activated ...



Why is that, in this case?



Some RSL lanyards have an eye loop that the main cut-away cable runs through to prevent the RSL from being activated by accident. Is this what you were asking?



I have no idea what you mean by that, might be a language barrier though. Anyway like mentioned above, pretty sure the vector and atom rsl's can be pulled on to release the reserve pin, nu cutting away required.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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No one mentioned that some (all?) containers require you to cut-away before the RSL can be activated ...



Why is that, in this case?



Some RSL lanyards have an eye loop that the main cut-away cable runs through to prevent the RSL from being activated by accident. Is this what you were asking?



Never heard of this (which wouldnt be a 1st!)... Which rigs?
Remster

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You've got it backward. The ring around the cutaway cable is there so the RSL will PULL the cutaway cable if it hasn't been pulled. (scenario, broken riser) Not to prevent the RSL from functioning.

This still may get in the way of a manual RSL pull as an alternate ripcord.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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You've got it backward. The ring around the cutaway cable is there so the RSL will PULL the cutaway cable if it hasn't been pulled. (scenario, broken riser) Not to prevent the RSL from functioning.

This still may get in the way of a manual RSL pull as an alternate ripcord.



So that I understand ... the point is that if the riser with the RSL breaks it will pull the cut-away cable and release the other riser?
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Say for some reason your pilot chute is unreachable (i.e. the hackey is shoved so far into the pouch you can't get it out). At the same time your reserve handle became dislodged and with all the wind you are unable to find it. What do you do?

Since asking this question in another thread I've gotten in an argument with someone about RSL's. The answer I gave to my rigger, the answer that he said was right and what he was looking for was to pull on your RSL...



Instead of spending the rest of your life with some crazy idea of pulling on your RSL, you should be spending your precious few seconds remaining finding the reserve ripcord cable coming out of the cable housing, tracing it to the reserve ripcord handle, and pulling on that.

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Instead of spending the rest of your life with some crazy idea of pulling on your RSL, you should be spending your precious few seconds remaining finding the reserve ripcord cable coming out of the cable housing, tracing it to the reserve ripcord handle, and pulling on that.



Worth repeating.
Remster

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