there went my monday shot to hell.....

[jumper03 0]

I gave a take home test in my geology class.

I got three tests back that are identical. same wrong answers, same spelling mistakes - they didn't even bother to change the formatting. You'd think college seniors would be a little more slick.



I feel like I've failed.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[lisamariewillbe 1]

you have a bigger problem then that, if it were a take home test they should have all gotten a 100%

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[tdog 0]

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I gave a take home test in my geology class.

Did you specify working as a team was not allowed???

[masterrig 1]

Quote

I gave a take home test in my geology class.

I got three tests back that are identical. same wrong answers, same spelling mistakes - they didn't even bother to change the formatting. You'd think college seniors would be a little more slick.



I feel like I've failed.

________________________________________

Who'da thunk it? A take home test? Dayum! where were you, when I was in college.


Chuck

[jumper03 0]

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I gave a take home test in my geology class.

Did you specify working as a team was not allowed???

yes. many times. they even asked and I said no.

easy to grade I guess....

Scars remind us that the past is real

[Superman32 0]

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you have a bigger problem then that, if it were a take home test they should have all gotten a 100%

Are you kidding?
Those are the worst, much more difficult than regular tests. But still not as bad open book. I used to detest open book tests, because the book never helped you and the tests were a million times harder

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[squirrel 0]

hand it back to them and say "take this home again! in the working world you would be fired." i earned my degree in construction management, and if you even tried something like this...my instructors would just laugh, literally.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[matt91078 0]

If that was here and you were turned in for and subsequently "found" by the honor board to have cheated, not only would you automatically fail the course, you have a 95%+ chance of being kicked out. Keep in mind this is West Point and we asked to be here and signed the line knowing full well the rules etc.

[IanHarrop 43]

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I gave a take home test in my geology class.

Did you specify working as a team was not allowed???

yes. many times. they even asked and I said no.

easy to grade I guess....

I used to mark paper a lot in university. For those that handed in identical work there were a couple of solutions

- everybody gets the grade/divided by the number of same papers
- first paper I marked got the whole grade, the second one half, the third one a third....
- everybody gets zero - my favorite

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[chaoskitty 0]

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hand it back to them and say "take this home again! in the working world you would be fired." i earned my degree in construction management, and if you even tried something like this...my instructors would just laugh, literally.

In most Universities, cheating is taken a little more seriously.

Steve, why do you feel that you've failed? Think about it.. senior year.. end of the semester.. finals out the ass.. *they* made the choice to cheat in order to get one test out of the way.

[squirrel 0]

oh, it was take seriously. there was just no real way to "cheat." assignments were given at team assignements, and then test were given as test, in class. cheating on assignments was no help to your eventual failure of the class, and program. i agree with this structure becuase when you are managing a project, if you dont know some technical issue, you most likely sub it out, hire assistance, or some other "team" interaction. whens the last time your boss through done a "test" on your desk, turn off your phone, and told you you had 45 minutes? all i know is when i make a change to a structure, damn sure i get the ok and input from my engr. concrete sub, truss manufacture, plumber, electrician, HVAC sub, and any other trades involved. the sooner people learn about "how and where" to acquire vital data, the better. hell, the last "test" i took with no assistance was the general contractors test...and that was a joke. the real "test" is how to get things done, correctly and in a timely manner.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[RhondaLea 4]

Give them a link to this thread, so they can see the variety of negative opinions about what they did.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[squirrel 0]

now thats a creative and direct idea !

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[NWFlyer 2]

Does your university have an honor code that they're supposed to uphold? Nail 'em under it.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[AggieDave 6]

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Does your university have an honor code that they're supposed to uphold

Just about every college out there has such. I know that Texas A&M will send you packing for cheating as well as the other Universities in TX. The down side is, doing so would most likely crush their dreams and possibly send them down a bad line in their life. I would rather see a prof fail the students from the course and give them a really strong wake up talking to, see if they don't get brought back to the reality of where they are and where they are going.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Beverly 1]

mmm, I don't think you have failed!

It was not your decision.

I would make copies and post them on the board and ask the entire class to grade them all.
They will pick it up too, so it was not a teacher accusation.
They will need to grade themselves and their mates, so they will be sure embarrassed and all their class mates will know that they cheated.

In my opinion, public humility will work better than a Fail.

They won't do that again in a hurry. Offer the opportunity to take another test in class as a make good.

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa

[tdog 0]

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Does your university have an honor code that they're supposed to uphold? Nail 'em under it.

If it was me, I would not nail anyone... Lesson is not learned, just a poor grade or worse depending on the school. No one wins (unless the school requires teachers to have a few poor grades, then the teacher earns his quota, like I know of one university that made a silly rule because the school wide average GPA was getting higher each year when they ignored the fact the SAT scores of the incoming freshman were higher too, and the professors were better trained.)

I would bring them in and say, you failed. However you can make it up and pass. This is how. You failed as a team, now you can pass as a team, but you are going to have to work together, and work together hard. If one of you still fails, you all will still fail. And make the "this is how" difficult, much more difficult than the first test, but something achievable and something, if completed, will teach them a thing or two about the subject matter at hand, and about ethics too.

If the students choose to do it, they care and they are good people who just screwed up a bit...

The best teachers are the ones who really push students to learn and want to learn, despite the subject matter or previous wrong doings...

I can name my best and worst teachers in college still to this day... The ones that were the best never thought in the box or followed any form of "it worked for this student, so it should work for that student too."

[NWFlyer 2]

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Does your university have an honor code that they're supposed to uphold

Just about every college out there has such. I know that Texas A&M will send you packing for cheating as well as the other Universities in TX. The down side is, doing so would most likely crush their dreams and possibly send them down a bad line in their life. I would rather see a prof fail the students from the course and give them a really strong wake up talking to, see if they don't get brought back to the reality of where they are and where they are going.

I went to a school where the (student-run) honor system was taken very seriously, so this kind of stuff wouldn't fly. Single sanction ... you get busted on an honor code violation, you're no longer a student there. Period, no exceptions, no options.

So it never occured to me to cheat. These guys knew damn well what they were doing; they chose to do it anyway. Chances are they knew what the penalty would be for getting caught (which may not be as drastic as getting kicked out).

I don't think there's actually that many schools that have a single sanction. I say nail 'em under the honor system. Maybe they'll have to stick around for another semester or take a summer school class. Maybe they'll get kicked out. They'll recover. But they'll remember.

[squirrel 0]

great point! again, teaching them how to do well in the face of difficulty is a "life" lesson.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[NWFlyer 2]

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something, if completed, will teach them a thing or two about the subject matter at hand, and about ethics too.

It'll teach them nothing about ethics. It will teach them that they cheated and got away with it, even though they may have had to work a little bit to recover from their cheating.

Tolerance of the kind of behavior that leads to the Enrons of the world starts somewhere. The kind of people that end up running the business/government world with questionable to lousy ethics are also the kind of people who have "gotten away" with stuff their whole lives.

[Superman32 0]

I had a prof. in college that used to say if he caught a cheater he would like to dispence public flogging, but since he couldn't he would fail you and do all that he could to get you expelled.

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[tdog 0]

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something, if completed, will teach them a thing or two about the subject matter at hand, and about ethics too.

It'll teach them nothing about ethics. It will teach them that they cheated and got away with it, even though they may have had to work a little bit to recover from their cheating.

Tolerance of the kind of behavior that leads to the Enrons of the world starts somewhere. The kind of people that end up running the business/government world with questionable to lousy ethics are also the kind of people who have "gotten away" with stuff their whole lives.

You are right, if you think INSIDE the box...

[jumpergirl 0]

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If it was me, I would not nail anyone... Lesson is not learned, just a poor grade or worse depending on the school. No one wins (unless the school requires teachers to have a few poor grades, then the teacher earns his quota, like I know of one university that made a silly rule because the school wide average GPA was getting higher each year when they ignored the fact the SAT scores of the incoming freshman were higher too, and the professors were better trained.)

I would bring them in and say, you failed. However you can make it up and pass. This is how. You failed as a team, now you can pass as a team, but you are going to have to work together, and work together hard. If one of you still fails, you all will still fail. And make the "this is how" difficult, much more difficult than the first test, but something achievable and something, if completed, will teach them a thing or two about the subject matter at hand, and about ethics too.

If the students choose to do it, they care and they are good people who just screwed up a bit...

The best teachers are the ones who really push students to learn and want to learn, despite the subject matter or previous wrong doings...

I think that's a great idea. I can see the value in doing it this way as opposed to just flat out failing or having them kicked out of school.

[jmpnkramer 0]

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I feel like I've failed.

You did not fail Big Guy.

The students failed themselves.

You can preach all you want to them but until they figure it out for themselves it will not be understood.


Laters,

K-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


.

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[swedishcelt 0]

I tell my students all the time the following...

I didn't fail you. You failed yourself. Either they didn't do the work out of laziness or failure to communicate to you they needed more explanation or information. Their education is their product that THEY are paying for... they should WANT better and demand it from you. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Cheating was a result of a bad decision on their part. They made that call, not you. Don't sweat it.