RhondaLea 4 #1 November 30, 2005 Well... Wasn't today just a banner day. Y'know, I cut abusive people out of my life at every turn. I have no use for them, none at all. But there's a big difference between someone who is abusive and someone who is exhibiting aberrant behavior while in a crisis situation. I guess it all depends on what you define as a crisis--most people think of something that lasts for a brief period of time and then ends. But there are other kinds of crises. Like the kind that goes on and on, with no real end in sight because even if there is a terminus, you don't really know if you're going to make it to the exit alive. A real friend distinguishes between a full-time bastard and someone who is in a really shitty situation and is acting out in response. And cutting off a lifeline (I'm talking to you, greenies) has got to be the most ill-considered move I can come up with to deal with such behavior. I'm really disappointed that no one here seems to have the insight to realize that something's wrong, and that a friend would give love and support and encouragement rather than making jokes, making fun, and just generally exhibiting a total lack of empathy. A friend in a war zone can call me anything he likes, can say whatever evil thing he needs to say to vent. If he'd been abusive at home, he wouldn't be my friend, so it wouldn't matter, but if he was just a normal guy, then it would be obvious to me that it really isn't him talking, but the impossible, frightening and untenable situation he's in. It doesn't seem to me that cleaning up a few posts is any big deal. And if the green people here have to keep doing it until he comes home...well, is that really too big a price to pay for a friend who is caught between a rock and hard place and isn't going to go on doing it forever? No empathy. No insight. It's pretty sad. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #2 November 30, 2005 As one who has met him and has a good idea of what he is really like...I now feel like shit because I got a poke or two in on him. BUT, that doesn't mean that I don't feel for him and the situation he is in...many of us have been there, done that.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #3 November 30, 2005 Damn, RL, you make us look at things we miss. Some things which we'd rather not. And you make some awesome points. *pensive* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #4 November 30, 2005 I missed a lot of things today , but i have respect for greenies. They represent us as a whole. Never thought i would disagree with your insights, but we should play by the rules as not to hurt others. You have a good point or two also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #5 November 30, 2005 Adults are responsible for their behavior 100% of the time. .. and come ON! Being banned from posting on these forums is not the end of the world! If he is really having a hard time, and acting out is the only way he can deal with it, this is not the place. This is not a private place. This website does not belong to any one person. I did not take any shots at Clay today, but his behavior today severely damaged my opinion of him. Lucky for him, he'll be fine regardless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #6 November 30, 2005 I know Clay and consider him a friend.Having said that,the Greenies are the only thing keeping this place from turning into Rec. and I thank them for that. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 November 30, 2005 There is a huge difference between dealing with an issue in private vs in public. Some people need to learn the difference between the two and deal with the issues in the proper context. I don't put posters up all around my neighborhood saying what a bad neighbor I have since they let garbage sit outside, I instead talk to them and see if we can't resolve the issue in private. There is no reason to deal with issues that concern two parties in public. Offline discussions or private communication are a much better medium to deal with issues like this in. This applies to way more then just this situation. This applies to all those ex-DZ employes that would love to stab their former employer in the back. This applies to those former rig manufactoring personal that have left their companies and now only have bad things to say about their old products, this even applies to those people that have been kicked off a DZ and now want to ruin the DZ anyway they can. Deal with your issues in private unless it really is a matter that the entire world needs to know about due to a safety concern. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #8 November 30, 2005 QuoteThere is a huge difference between dealing with an issue in private vs in public. Some people need to learn the difference between the two and deal with the issues in the proper context. I don't put posters up all around my neighborhood saying what a bad neighbor I have since they let garbage sit outside, I instead talk to them and see if we can't resolve the issue in private. There is no reason to deal with issues that concern two parties in public. Offline discussions or private communication are a much better medium to deal with issues like this in. This applies to way more then just this situation. This applies to all those ex-DZ employes that would love to stab their former employer in the back. This applies to those former rig manufactoring personal that have left their companies and now only have bad things to say about their old products, this even applies to those people that have been kicked off a DZ and now want to ruin the DZ anyway they can. Deal with your issues in private unless it really is a matter that the entire world needs to know about due to a safety concern. I agree with you entirely. But nothing that you said has anything to do with what I wrote. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #9 November 30, 2005 I missed quite a bit around here but If it has anythingto do with clay ( at least to the point I read) I didnt see anything worng with it. I also didnt see any personal attacks. I saw Him bitching about getting the run around by a well known skydiver. I saw him post that he has Pm/emailed the person and got the cold shoulder. I believe clay is still in a war situation and that can be fucking hairy. so if he feels like he's getting fucked in the ass by someone who should be a better person than taht, then let him bitch about it. as I said I didnt see any personal attacks and if there were any I guess the post should have been deleted but You gotta see where his head is at,My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #10 November 30, 2005 JT.. you missed just a few personal attacks today. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #11 November 30, 2005 QuoteJT.. you missed just a few personal attacks today. Yeah, just a few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #12 November 30, 2005 I love the guy , but he did attack people who didnt deserve it... things went major wrong today, but I have talked with Mike myself on the phone and I understand the situation because I have both sides and I have talked to Liz, and one way or the other this will be resolved... thanks everyone who stands by their friendship with him, and understands there is an under-lying issue....Im just sad that it had to get to the point it did....Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #13 November 30, 2005 QuoteI love the guy , but he did attack people who didnt deserve it... things went major wrong today, but I have talked with Mike myself on the phone and I understand the situation because I have both sides and I have talked to Liz, and one way or the other this will be resolved... thanks everyone who stands by their friendship with him, and understands there is an under-lying issue....Im just sad that it had to get to the point it did.... wow, Clay is one lucky fucker to have you. You got free beer from me when I meet you.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #14 November 30, 2005 QuoteI missed quite a bit around here but If it has anythingto do with clay ( at least to the point I read) I didnt see anything worng with it. I also didnt see any personal attacks. I saw Him bitching about getting the run around by a well known skydiver. I saw him post that he has Pm/emailed the person and got the cold shoulder. I believe clay is still in a war situation and that can be fucking hairy. so if he feels like he's getting fucked in the ass by someone who should be a better person than taht, then let him bitch about it. as I said I didnt see any personal attacks and if there were any I guess the post should have been deleted but You gotta see where his head is at, Clay was out of control today. His behavior was abysmally bad, and he hurt people. It was the wrong thing to do. But that's still not the point. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #15 November 30, 2005 Quote Clay was out of control today. His behavior was abysmally bad, and he hurt people. So lets leave him alone and quit talking about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #16 November 30, 2005 QuoteThis is not a private place. This website does not belong to any one person. Actually, this website does belong to one person. He decided that this wasn't something he wanted hashed out on his forums. That's pretty much the end of the discussion, regardless of what I, or any other moderator, or anyone else, thinks about it.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #17 November 30, 2005 Please review the forum rules, in relevant part: Quote"Gripe" threads about any action from a moderator including "Where did my post go?" posts will be removed. I'm going to lock this for now. Please, let's try to move on from this issue. I don't normally hang out in the Bonfire much, but today y'all are causing the regular BF mods to pull their hair out--and call for reinforcements.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #18 November 30, 2005 QuoteNo empathy. No insight. It's pretty sad. I know Clay and consider him a friend. As someone who has spent my fair share of time in "war zones" I'm fine on the empathy side. He still doesn't get to break the forum rules, not from a war zone, not from a prison, not from a brothel..... I do not like Green Eggs and Ham I do not like them Sam, I am I do not like them here or there I do not like them anywhere.... ...I trust he'll understand.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
