Superman32 0 #1 January 18, 2006 Flipping through the channels came upon this show on Discovery (it's on now) about smoke jumpers. They are jumping rounds and doing some hard PLF's. These mofos have capewells and belly mounted reserves. The rigs looked straight out of WWII Some ballsy mofos Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skiskyrock 0 #2 January 19, 2006 QuoteFlipping through the channels came upon this show on Discovery (it's on now) about smoke jumpers. They are jumping rounds and doing some hard PLF's. These mofos have capewells and belly mounted reserves. The rigs looked straight out of WWII Some ballsy mofos I watched the whole thing. First group goes in down in the valley and has a 1 hour walk up hill to the fire. The second group says screw that we are going in above the fire. They drop into a clearing on a steep slope next to a cliff. I guess if you can't really steer you don't worry too much about where you land ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #3 January 19, 2006 They are bad ass! If you ever get to take a tour of a smoke jumpers facility, it is well worth the time! I spent an hour or so at the facility in Mccall Idaho. These guys had pictures of SJ exiting at about 700ft and all the trees were on fire! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #4 January 19, 2006 QuoteThe rigs looked straight out of WWII Pretty close. They jump -1C as far as I know. Don't know if they have updated reserves with pilot chutes or they are still the "Throw out" variety. I had some pretty serious thought of doing that job once...........then I thought harder about the fact that you jump in and then spend days or weeks digging ditches. Screw that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #5 January 20, 2006 some jump a version that some of the military now uses called the sf10a. basically a Para CommanderLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 January 20, 2006 QuoteDon't know if they have updated reserves with pilot chutes or they are still the "Throw out" variety I think you are refering to the (SLCP) MIRPS reserve. The previous reserve was not "throw out", it utilized a spring loaded pilot chute. The SF10a was actually used by the smoke jumpers BEFORE it was adopted by the military. The chute was designated SF10a after the 10th SFG who had a requirement for a staticline round capable of being used at high altitude in Colorado after negative experiences with the current system at that altitude. The forrestry service has actually been evaluating systems and looking at upgrading its existing systems to something newer utilizing staticline deployed square canopys and the faithful round ,depending on the situation."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #7 January 20, 2006 I had some pretty serious thought of doing that job once.Quote What-all is required? How does one get into such a vocation? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteS 0 #8 January 20, 2006 The forest service uses the FS-14,a design of Bill Gargano. I did about 50 jumps on it during deveopment in the early 90's. It is an awesome round parachute. Good forward speed, quick flat turns and very stable.During our presentation we had only three jumpers in a sherpa from 6000'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #9 January 20, 2006 They were flying out of Canyon City one summer fighting a fire, so of course we had to walk over there. Derek checked out the gear and said there was no way in hell he would jump it and if he was the rigger he would have grounded it. Oil stains, smoke damage, a few even were singed, quite the scary gear. They were looking over our rigs and were quite surprised at how differently it was constructed. They did admit that the only way they would cut away was if they were stuck in a tree so ease of cut away was not a big deal.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #10 January 21, 2006 QuoteThe forest service uses the FS-14,a design of Bill Gargano. I did about 50 jumps on it during deveopment in the early 90's. It is an awesome round parachute. Good forward speed, quick flat turns and very stable.During our presentation we had only three jumpers in a sherpa from 6000'. the sherpa is badass, but only the side door is used, and rarely the tailgate........ heres the one in missoula montana...... and the kickass loft....... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #11 January 21, 2006 Thats what I want to do when I get out of the Army. There based out of Redmond, OR. A short drive from where I grew up. Maybe my 9 years mill experience and civilian jumps will help with the application? Crossing my fingers Of course I have 3 years left on my contract before the Army lets me go. Hopefully they take old folk, I'll be 27 then Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #12 January 21, 2006 QuoteMabye my 9 years mill experience and civilian jumps will help with the application? Just don't kid yourself. They view jumping like the Military does, its a method of infiltration to get to the fight(fire), thats it."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #13 January 21, 2006 So I'll need some Fire fighting experiance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #14 January 21, 2006 QuoteThe forest service uses the FS-14,a design of Bill Gargano. I did about 50 jumps on it during deveopment in the early 90's. It is an awesome round parachute. Good forward speed, quick flat turns and very stable.During our presentation we had only three jumpers in a sherpa from 6000'. They are using the FS-18 now. I believe it has some zp fabric. Quite manueverable for a round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #15 January 21, 2006 QuoteSo I'll need some Fire fighting experiance? That would have more value than the jumping experience. The sj's don't mind some limited military jump experience but don't tell them you are a skydiver. They want you to do things their way and the parachute is just a way to get to the ground. They usually exit between 1200 and 1800 ft. in uneven mountainous terrain on a static line. They could care less about your freefall time or ram-air piloting skills. Rookies usually get 5 or 6 practice jumps before jumping an actual fire, that's it. I spent 20 years in the Forest Service as a firefighter. I never jumped but I did work on 3 different hotshot crews. I was stationed at the Redmond air center on the Redmond hotshot crew and we shared the barracks with the Smoke jumpers. You will need a minimum of two full seasons as a firefighter before they will even consider you. Hotshot experience is prefered and it usually takes a few years experience to get on a hotshot crew. The jumping part is the easy part. The physical training as a rookie is pretty tough. Weeks of PLF's, push-ups, running, etc. The Pack out is killer, I think it is 120 lbs over 3 and a half miles in rough terrain. They also spend a lot of time in the loft maintaining equipment and learning to sew. If the fire season is not too busy you will get your senior riggers ticket the first season. As far as the comment about the junk gear with oil stains that is simply absurd. Their gear may be of an older design but it is in pristine condition and incredibly well maintained. They are using modern materials now and even though they have round mains and round reserves the pack volumes are much smaller now. The SJ's will tell you that their gear is "modern" and "state of the art" It's the government after all so they have a big budget. After a rig is jumped one time it is meticulously inspected and hung in the loft before returning to service. Repaired or replaced as needed. Fun summer job for a young person in good shape but it doesn't pay all that great and not many become career employees. And since you are working all summer not much time for skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #16 January 21, 2006 QuoteSo I'll need some Fire fighting experiance? QuoteThat would have more value than the jumping experience. The sj's don't mind some limited military jump experience but don't tell them you are a skydiver. They want you to do things their way and the parachute is just a way to get to the ground. I wasn't expecting my ram air jumps to be much of a factor. I was thinking my Military time and the fact that I can do as told without question as a plus. And Im a Staff Sergeant(Combat Arms) so I know how to order others when the shit hits the fan. QuoteHotshot experience is prefered and it usually takes a few years experience to get on a hotshot crew. No Exeptions? Im not some dumb ass you have to babysit! QuoteThe physical training as a rookie is pretty tough. Weeks of PLF's, push-ups, running, etc. The Pack out is killer, I think it is 120 lbs over 3 and a half miles in rough terrain. Thats It! 3.5 miles? Im golden, throw a couple extra pounds on there for me I've done two 100 mile rucks over rough terrain. QuoteAs far as the comment about the junk gear with oil stains that is simply absurd. Not worried about that. I don't care about the pay, Its something that I would really like to do. QuoteThey want you to do things their way Thats cool, tell me what to do, even if I think its fucked up, I'll do it. But I'll tell you that you where fucked up in the AAR! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #17 January 21, 2006 BLM smokejumpers use ram-air square parachutes, while Forest Service jumpers use round parachutes. BLM Ram-Air Forest Service FS-14 You might want to look at these 2 web sites before you decide you want to go into Smoke jumping. Storm King Mountain Mann Gulch Fire SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #18 January 21, 2006 Both organizations are currently looking hard at upgrading existing systems and have been evaluating systems from several mfgrs. Besides improved square /round canopy choices, they are looking to reduce weight, ease of use, maintenance and most importantly, it has to be able to fit the 5'4" female to the 6'4" corn fed boy. On top of that, it has to be able to fit over the rough terrain suit which can translate into that 5'4" female having a waist as big as a 6'4" guy. The entire system has more in common with military jumping than sport. Although there are some things from the sport side that will make it easier for them to do their job. The BLM has realized that they need to focus more on canopy skills and have also shown an interest in further training their jumpers to be better canopy pilots."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 January 28, 2006 Scott, What they should be looking at is using choppers and "fast rope" the firefighters in and a 'drop bundle" for their gear. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #20 January 29, 2006 QuoteWhat they should be looking at is using choppers and "fast rope" the firefighters in Sounds pretty cool but civillian choppers don't carry all that many people and you need to be able to get the rope to the ground. In thick forest your going to hang a rope up more in the branches than get it on the ground. Since most trees are 20-30 ft high or higher your looking at a good deal of time on the rope which can mean you have up to 3 people on a 60 -90 foot fast rope at one time. Not really safe or fast. The beauty of fast roping is that it is supposed to be fast. long fast ropes with full kit on can be quite hairy.I think they would end up hurting more people fast roping than they do rough terrain jumping now."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #21 January 29, 2006 That too may be a consideration, but a friend of mine in the BLM cites operating costs as the main reason they don't use choppers on a large scale. More maintenance per flight hour, and as you said more flight hours to get the numbers of boots on the ground needed to effectively fight a fire. Speed and range are also a consideration. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
