Airman1270 0 #1 February 4, 2006 A conversation about old logbooks has swerved into a debate about how much alcohol an average male can drink without becoming impaired to the point of posing a threat to public safety. The discussion emanated from an observation that many jumpers leave at the end of the day, rather than hang around over some beer with friends. In this corner, Airman says people who keep their drinking within the legal limit are perfectly safe to drive. In the other corner, challenger mjosparky seems to think that ANY alcohol consumption prior to driving home is a dangerous threat to public safety. A statistic was cited indicating that something like 35+% of traffic wrecks are "alcohol related." This means that 65-ish% of wrecks involved drivers who are perfectly sober. As I read this, I see that accidents occur for a wide variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with drinking. I believe that many "alcohol related" accidents occur for reasons other than the fact that the driver had been drinking, especially in cases where the driver had very little and was, in fact, within the bounds of the law. If a drunk guy is waiting at a red light and is rear-ended by a sober guy, the incident will be classified as "alcohol related" even though the wreck was caused by a sober driver. I believe the political witch hunt against drunk driving, while motivated by valid concerns, has been pushed to ridiculous extremes, resulting in a climate in which safe drivers who are obeying the law risk arrest & prosecution. Additionally, it is difficult to publicly question this situation without being accused of defending drunk drivers. (Throughout this discussion NOBODY has said it was okay to drive while drunk.) If mjosparky is correct, then the legal b.a.c. should be changed to .00 and the only people who should be enjoying that sunset beer are the folks who will be camping overnight. Your thoughts? Cheers, Jon S. DAMM - Drunks Against Mad Mothers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjchis 0 #2 February 4, 2006 I agree with you, the problem is not those who have a beer or two and are capable of driving home safely. I think the people who pose a threat are the ones who are incapable of assessing themselves. I'm not going to worry about someone responsible that has a drink and can still drive safely, so why make it illegal for them to do so? I'm worried about the one drink that leads to another and another but they are still pretty sure they are OK to drive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #3 February 4, 2006 I feel SC coming up...lolhttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #4 February 4, 2006 QuoteI feel SC coming up...lol _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Y'know, I wondered about that... I thought this topic was benign enough for the bonfire, but I guess the intensity of any ensuing discussion might be the deciding factor. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bazelos 0 #5 February 4, 2006 Thing is, not everyone can handle the same ammount, so in order to make sure that everyone is capable of driving they have to introduce these laws.He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #6 February 5, 2006 Well, the first thing alcohol seems to impair is judgement, so the drunker you get, the better you think you can drive. I think the BAC laws are good, but I keep seeing them pushed to lower and lower limits by politicians trying to "do something' about drunk drivers. The limit used to be .12, then .10, now .08 in our state, a 33% reduction. Fine, maybe, but that still doesn't faze the habitual, chronic, suspended-license drunken idiot driving and killing while blowing a .24. Rehab, jail time, or severe lifestyle changes seem to be the only answer for them. I remember one judge who sentenced a habitual drunk driver to relocate within walking distance of a liquor store and a bar. Maybe not a bad idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #7 February 5, 2006 Just being within the legal limit doesn't mean that one is not impaired. I don't drink much, and my body doesn't process alcohol very well anymore. One beer is enough to cross my eyes. If I had to blow, they'd have to let me go, but that wouldn't mean that I should be driving. There are too many dead people who are dead because of drunk drivers. Factoids: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm I'm with Sparky. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #8 February 5, 2006 QuoteJust being within the legal limit doesn't mean that one is not impaired. I don't drink much, and my body doesn't process alcohol very well anymore. One beer is enough to cross my eyes. If I had to blow, they'd have to let me go, but that wouldn't mean that I should be driving. There are too many dead people who are dead because of drunk drivers. Factoids: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm I'm with Sparky. rl Hate to say it but.... I agree with rl on this one, alcohol affects everyone differently. You could be within the legal limits but that doesn't mean you're safe behind the wheel....The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #9 February 5, 2006 I've gradually made the switch from trying to stay within the drink limit to making sure I drink nothing at all when I'm driving. Just seems safer that way, both legally and ethically. Trouble is, drink is only one of the factors that affect your driving ability. Surely it's safer to drive wide awake after one beer than when you're completely sober but incredibly tired. But there's no way to legislate on the number of hours of sleep you should have had in order to drive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #10 February 5, 2006 QuoteJust being within the legal limit doesn't mean that one is not impaired. I very rarely agree with RL. But on this I agree 100% The problem with drugs of any type is that: 1. The impairment starts at the first dose. 2. Some people are better able to handle the effects than others. A 40 year old that has been driving for 24 years and been drinking for 19 will handle it better than a 21 year old on his first big night out. 3. And the really big problem: As John said "Well, the first thing alcohol seems to impair is judgement, so the drunker you get, the better you think you can drive" So drunks think they are fine to drive."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjchis 0 #11 February 5, 2006 QuoteAs John said "Well, the first thing alcohol seems to impair is judgement, so the drunker you get, the better you think you can drive" So drunks think they are fine to drive. I definitely have to say that's exactly right. So what's the solution than? Just lower the BAC more or make driving with any amount of alcohol illegal? And how did they pick that number in the first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #12 February 5, 2006 QuoteI definitely have to say that's exactly right. So what's the solution than? Just lower the BAC more or make driving with any amount of alcohol illegal? I think that the solution is be much harder on people that drink and drive above the limit. I know lots of folks that got caught and really nothing happend. And if involved in an accident...Well it should be harder to just pay fines and move out. Like tons of comunity service. QuoteAnd how did they pick that number in the first place? No clue...I'd like to think that some studies were done. But I doubt it. Maybe at first, but then law makers wanted to save everyone and lowered it. I think the solution is pretty simple. Don't drink and drive....Period."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #13 February 6, 2006 QuoteIf I had to blow, they'd have to let me go, but that wouldn't mean that I should be driving. rl please dont blow and drive...........at least be the passenger....stop endangering us with your bad habits..... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjchis 0 #14 February 6, 2006 QuoteDon't drink and drive....Period. Good call. And SkyPsycho... was that REALLY necessary? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #15 February 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteDon't drink and drive....Period. Good call. And SkyPsycho... was that REALLY necessary? but of course....... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #16 February 6, 2006 QuoteI'd like to think that some studies were done. But I doubt it. A huge amount of study has been done on the relationship between BAC and driving ability. Here's a handy graph, and here's a google search with enough info to keep you going for several weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #17 February 6, 2006 QuoteA huge amount of study has been done on the relationship between BAC and driving ability. Here's a handy graph, and here's a google search with enough info to keep you going for several weeks. Sorry I meant that I doubt that the politicians actually paid attention. I know there are studies, but I bet that most folks on the hill vote based one what is popular, not based on science. I still could be wrong though."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #18 February 6, 2006 Quoteplease dont blow and drive...........at least be the passenger....stop endangering us with your bad habits..... Vinny, Vinny, Vinny... ...the truckers love it. Who am I to come between them and an afternoon's entertainment? Now step away from the keyboard and get back in the hot tub... rl P.S. Jeffie didn't show. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 February 6, 2006 QuoteIn this corner, Airman says people who keep their drinking within the legal limit are perfectly safe to drive. In the other corner, challenger mjosparky seems to think that ANY alcohol consumption prior to driving home is a dangerous threat to public safety driving impaired. Out of 8 that voiced an opinion “agree or disagree”, 7 agree with one disagreeing and later agreeing. My first thought is to say that the challenger won but when it comes to drinking and driving there are no winners, just losers. "The 16,694 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes during 2004 represent an average of one alcohol-related fatality every 31 minutes." SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyPsycho 0 #20 February 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteplease dont blow and drive...........at least be the passenger....stop endangering us with your bad habits..... Vinny, Vinny, Vinny... ...the truckers love it. Who am I to come between them and an afternoon's entertainment? Now step away from the keyboard and get back in the hot tub... rl P.S. Jeffie didn't show. wow......he did really hide from you....... happy? now its here...... _______________________________ HK MP5SD.........silence is golden Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #21 February 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteJust being within the legal limit doesn't mean that one is not impaired. I very rarely agree with RL. But on this I agree 100% It's okay, Ron. No need to ruin our record. You can just say that you're agreeing with everyone else, and I happened to concur with the majority. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #22 February 6, 2006 QuoteI agree with you, the problem is not those who have a beer or two and are capable of driving home safely. I think the people who pose a threat are the ones who are incapable of assessing themselves. . See that there is where the paradox lies. Many peples idea of self assessment is biased and skewed, mostly by the booze There have been quite a few adhok experiments done where the level of alcohol consumed has been very low but it's still had an effect on reaction times of drivers.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #23 February 6, 2006 QuoteIt's okay, Ron. No need to ruin our record. You can just say that you're agreeing with everyone else, and I happened to concur with the majority Thats kinda funny. But to be honest, I have no problem admitting when you are right. Your not stupid and say some good things. The difference is that most times on here that people don't reply when they agree. And that can seem to cause problems. In truth most times you and I disagree on only a few issues and neither lets it drop. So I have no fear of agreeing with you....On that rare case when you are right"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #24 February 6, 2006 ...Well, the first thing alcohol seems to impair is judgement, so the drunker you get, the better you think you can drive... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Really? This is scary. If I'm driving I'll stop after two regardless of how I feel, or I won't start in the first place. Once I'm into the third one I know that, while I may be able to drive a bit (30 years' experience) I will not pass a breath test at a roadblock and I won't place myself in that position. One thing that doesn't change is my ability to assess reality. The more I drink, the more aware I am of the things I cannot or should not do. (Three things I cannot do while drunk are play guitar well, carry on a coherent conversation, or the sex thing. And if #3 was available to me I would not be drunk in the first place.) Thanks, Jon Homer no function well beer without. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #25 February 6, 2006 QuoteReally? This is scary. If I'm driving I'll stop after two regardless of how I feel, or I won't start in the first place. Once I'm into the third one I know that, while I may be able to drive a bit (30 years' experience) I will not pass a breath test at a roadblock and I won't place myself in that position. Thats because you have a hard rule about it. You stop before you get out of control. QuoteOne thing that doesn't change is my ability to assess reality. The more I drink, the more aware I am of the things I cannot or should not do. Sorry I have a hard time with that. Alcohol does effect people differently, but one pretty common theme is they lose the ability to make good judgements."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
