DOUBLE PILLOWS????

[skydiver88 0]

what do yall think about them?
im looking at getting a container with them i just havent decided
feed back from people who have jumped both would be great
and if anyone has had a cut away with the double pillows how was it if you have had a cut away with both kinds of handles that would be a lot of help thanks

[AggieDave 6]

Please use the search function, this has been discussed a few times.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[redlegphi 0]

Are you getting them for a reason or just because you think they look cool? Double pillows are used on rigs used by freefliers because of the increased risk of a metal reserve handle getting pulled while freeflying with others. Basically, it's increasing risk in one area (ease of reserve deployment) for decreased risk in another (risk of premature deployment). I can't really think of any other good reason to get them.

[skydiver88 0]

those were the main reasons i was thinking about getting them

[redlegphi 0]

This was recently discussed, at least partially, over here.

[davelepka 4]

Stick with the mechanical advantage a hard handle can provide you, and develop a habit of protecting your handles at all times.

If anyone tells you they want to take grips on your harness, just say no.

[AFFI 0]

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Stick with the mechanical advantage a hard handle can provide you, and develop a habit of protecting your handles at all times.
If anyone tells you they want to take grips on your harness, just say no.

Bravo!

At you experience level the benefits of having a metal handle far outweighs a snag point. Having a metal reserve handle ties into your EP’s mentally and physically reducing the possibility of an out of sequence EP, the D ring also provides you a handle you can get a better grip on.

If we look at stats, I would suspect that many more incidents were created by an out of sequence EP versus a reserve being deployed prematurely in freefall.

Stay as safe as you can right now, you still have a lot going on just getting the hang of skydiving with others, stay with a D-Ring and you can switch to a pillow when you are ready.
How do we know when we are “READY”?

When you reach a point where you are absolutely positively certain beyond the shadow of a doubt you are ready for that change, then go out and make 100 more jumps, then re-evaluate.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[billeisele 130]

when it hits the fan i want to have a solid ring of steel to save my life, the pillows look nice but -----

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Suavel 0]

I'm sure this has been asked before but:

If the metal D-ring is that much better, why do we use pillows for our cutaway handle? Especially considering that you usually hear about "hard pulls" on the cutaway (due to extreme linetwists and such), not on the reserve pull.


(This is not a charged question, just pure curiosity. I personally use a metal handle for my reserve ripcord.)

[skydiverek 63]

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I'm sure this has been asked before but:

If the metal D-ring is that much better, why do we use pillows for our cutaway handle? Especially considering that you usually hear about "hard pulls" on the cutaway (due to extreme linetwists and such), not on the reserve pull.

From Bill Booth:

"Again, if pillows are so bad, why are they used as cutaway handles on 99% of the rigs out there?"

Although I designed the "soft pillow" handle for the 3-ring release in the first place, I won't get into the discussion (too much) about whether it makes a good reserve handle for freeflyers. Most decisions in skydiving are tradeoffs, and this is certainly one of them. However, I do think a pillow makes a better cutaway handle than a reserve handle, simply because, where the pillow is in a cutaway situation, is much different from where it is in a reserve pull situation. Think about it. In almost all situations where a cutaway is needed, you're hanging from your main risers, and your main lift web, where your cutaway pillow sits, is pulled up and away from your body, so your cutaway pillow is literally right in front of your nose.

Now think of where your reserve handle is in a total malfunction. It's down below your armpit, tucked tightly against your body, maybe even UNDER the webbing, and more than a little bit hard to see, especially if you're wearing a full face helmet. Now think how much a reserve pillow handle feels like your harness, or a fold in your jumpsuit, especially if you're wearing gloves. Now picture yourself low, out of time, and in desperate need of a reserve handle that you can't see or feel. Aren't you glad you bought that Cypres?"

[billvon 3,080]

>If the metal D-ring is that much better, why do we use pillows for our cutaway handle?

Well, for one thing, accidentally pulling your reserve during a toggle turn in the pattern (say, snagging your altimeter on it) won't generally kill you; accidentally pulling your cutaway handle probably will.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Double pillows are used on rigs used by freefliers

Double pillows were around long before freeflyers.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[cocheese 0]

one pillow under her head and one pillow under her butt.

wups, wrong forum.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Quote

Double pillows are used on rigs used by freefliers

Double pillows were around long before freeflyers.


Ed

Comon, you know there was nothing before freefliers...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AFFI 0]

Here is some reading for ya - Your search for reserve handle returned 6000 results :

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=reserve%20handle&sb=score&mh=25

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[azureriders 0]

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one pillow over her head and one pillow under her butt.

wups, wrong forum.

fixed it for you

[RM1 0]

I love these discussions. I jump double pillow "Because it Looks Cool"
Why do i think this is an acceptable answer? Ill tell you. D ring is easier to pull but also easier to have pulled. PIllow is less likely to get pulled but harder to pull. So pretty much puts them on level ground so i went with what looks cool.

Now for the OP question it can be harder to pull pillow reserves more so than cutaway handles because on many of the rigs set up with double pillows the cut away is not sandwiched in between the MLW were the reserve is. Yes there should only be one piece of velcro on both but having the webbing there does make for a harder pull. I first found this out in the loft doing practice eps and it was reaffirmed in the air during actual eps. Just remember to PEEL pull and your money.

[AFFI 0]

Quote

I love these discussions. I jump double pillow "Because it Looks Cool"
Why do i think this is an acceptable answer? Ill tell you. D ring is easier to pull but also easier to have pulled. PIllow is less likely to get pulled but harder to pull. So pretty much puts them on level ground so i went with what looks cool.

If we look at stats, I would suspect that many more incidents were created by an out of sequence EP versus a reserve being deployed prematurely in freefall.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[davelepka 4]

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D ring is easier to pull but also easier to have pulled.

The answer to this is not to comprimise and jump a soft reserve handle, the answer is to protect your handles.

Jumpsuits have grippers for a reason. Don't let people dock on your harness. Ever.

[Brains 2]

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Jumpsuits have grippers for a reason. Don't let people dock on your harness. Ever.

I just thought this was worth repeating. For the record, i currently jump a rig with double pillows (bought used, it came that way.) and i still don't let people take grips on my harness. Leg pads for hybrids, maybe. But never on my harness.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[NWPoul 1]

H-mm what about chest strap grip for 2+1 way hybrids?

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[gearless_chris 1]

I only have soft reserve handles because I figure they'll be easier to find if I drop them. Oh yeah, and because with my luck if someone at the DZ was going to get their handle pulled accidentally it'd be me.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[davelepka 4]

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H-mm what about chest strap grip for 2+1 way hybrids?

That's not was your chest strap was meant for, and thats not an area I want another jumper groping around looking for a handhold.

My solution is pretty simple, I open my mouth and say, "No, I won't be in the base". It works like a charm.

[damion75 0]

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I'm sure this has been asked before but:

If the metal D-ring is that much better, why do we use pillows for our cutaway handle? Especially considering that you usually hear about "hard pulls" on the cutaway (due to extreme linetwists and such), not on the reserve pull.

From Bill Booth:

"Again, if pillows are so bad, why are they used as cutaway handles on 99% of the rigs out there?"

Although I designed the "soft pillow" handle for the 3-ring release in the first place, I won't get into the discussion (too much) about whether it makes a good reserve handle for freeflyers. Most decisions in skydiving are tradeoffs, and this is certainly one of them. However, I do think a pillow makes a better cutaway handle than a reserve handle, simply because, where the pillow is in a cutaway situation, is much different from where it is in a reserve pull situation. Think about it. In almost all situations where a cutaway is needed, you're hanging from your main risers, and your main lift web, where your cutaway pillow sits, is pulled up and away from your body, so your cutaway pillow is literally right in front of your nose.

Now think of where your reserve handle is in a total malfunction. It's down below your armpit, tucked tightly against your body, maybe even UNDER the webbing, and more than a little bit hard to see, especially if you're wearing a full face helmet. Now think how much a reserve pillow handle feels like your harness, or a fold in your jumpsuit, especially if you're wearing gloves. Now picture yourself low, out of time, and in desperate need of a reserve handle that you can't see or feel. Aren't you glad you bought that Cypres?"

I was sure that it was BB who also pointed out that in terms of accidentally 'activating' a handle prior to the canopy being out, there is very little pressure on the cutaway cable to keep it in place so if the cutaway pad was knocked out in freefall, it could (relatively) easily slide out, compared to a reserve handle/cable which has a constant force (the reserve loop) holding the pin in place whether you are in freefall or under canopy.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.