"Stranger Danger"

[twibbles 0]

This reminded me of an incident i read in the newspapers when i was in Singapore over summer one, maybe two years ago, except that it's real.

A bunch of teenagers were swimming in a reservoir in a park, all allowed by the authorities. One of the teenagers got into trouble, so his friends stopped people on a nearby path asking to borrowing a mobile phone to call for help. Everyone either looked away and ignored them, or said that they don't want to get involved, and the kid drowned.

Another more personal experience was when i was in boarding school, and a female friend of mine was stalked and harassed by this guy. The girl, a few friends and I were in a music room when he tried to force his way into the room, sweeping back and forth with a leatherman in the gap under the door. Everything ended fine, walked the girls back to their dorm where he couldn't enter, then i went to a friend (friends of the girl as well), and told him about it. First thing that came out of his mouth is "I don't want to be involved".. Not "what can we do", or "is she all right"... I've never been more disgusted with someone in my life.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[diablopilot 2]

What did you want them to do, beat him up?


Don't lay blame on those passing by. Every one of those people has the RIGHT to avoid putting themselves in the way of legal or even physical harm.

Did ya think to check how many call were made to 911 a few moments after a person had walked by?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Nightingale 0]

Um... were those cops uniformed or plainclothes? Normally, I would intervene in something like this, and have...turned out the kid was screaming "you're not my daddy" at his adult older brother who was trying to remove him from a toy store. I was on my way in, said "if he's not your dad, who is he?" and got "*sniff* my brother *sniff*" and I said "just checking." and walked away. I would have been very worried about that little boy if I hadn't asked, though. I didn't hesitate to ask mainly because oftentimes just walking up and saying "hey, what's going on?" will get the guy to drop the kid and split, because you can now identify both him and the child, you're in a public place, and the guy wasn't looking for a confrontation with an adult. However, if there was a cop around, I would expect him to do the intervening and figure that if he wasn't getting involved, there was probably a very good reason (set-up or whatever). In that case, I would be on my cell phone to the cops.

[JohnRich 4]

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What is wrong with people these days that they'd not be willing to stick their neck out for a child or an animal or anything that is potentially in a lot of danger?

The government and the mass media has convinced everyone that our only duty as a citizen is to dial "9-1-1" then go back to our normal lives and not worry about it. Only agents of the government are trained properly to intervene. Everyone else is a "vigilante", and should mind their own business.

That's bullshit, of course, but that's the way the public feels.

If you want someone else to come to your aid some day, you better start helping those in need yourself and setting an example for others.

[thegreekone 0]

If you want someone else to come to your aid some day, you better start helping those in need yourself and setting an example for others.

[Richards 0]

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Don't lay blame on those passing by. Every one of those people has the RIGHT to avoid putting themselves in the way of legal or even physical harm.

I have to disagree. When it comes to a childs safety, it is an adults moral obligation to intervene. If your child were abducted and you knew that several adults were witness but chose to do nothing would you accept that? I think as a society we place a higher value on a childs life than an adults (rightly so) and generally should expect adults to be willing to intervene when a child is in danger.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[PLFXpert 0]

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If your child were abducted and you knew that several adults were witness but chose to do nothing would you accept that?

The mother whose child was used in said experiment WAS watching the process through a hidden camera. She had tears in her eyes just thinking "What if this were for real??" It was hard to watch her.

Great responses, ya'll!

Diablo, I agree, certainly we have the right to not assist. Regarding how many calls were made to 911---according to the segment, none in reference to this incident.

Nightengale---I don't know if the cops were uniformed or not. I want to say no, but I do not know for sure.

Airtwardo, regarding the hitchhiker comparison---not the same in my opinion (though I enjoyed the rest of your response) b/c a hitchhiker most likely if not totally is not in a life or death situation. Most children that are abducted are either not found or found dead. That is life or death.

I, myself, would not pick up a hitchhiker. As for a broken-down vehicle on the side of the road, these days most everyone has a cell to call for a tow or AAA. If I were a witness, though (ie: behind them in an accident or when they pulled over with their emergency lights) I would probably pull over to see if I coudl be of assistance. But, I have a panic button on my own car as well as pepper spray in my bag (by no means are these fool-proof) that I keep close to me in situations like this.

Of course I'd err on the side of caution, but a child? I'm stepping in. If that results in a knife to my throat, so be it. I absolutely couldn't bare the thought of seeing on television the sexually abused and battered body of said child found that I witnessed being abducted and did nothing about.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[diablopilot 2]

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When it comes to a childs safety, it is an adults moral obligation to intervene.

To what level? Should they call the cops? Should they ask "What's going on here?" Should they restrain the adult?

It is each persons responsibility to set their own "moral obligation action meter".

I ask again, what would you have passer-byers do?

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If your child were abducted and you knew that several adults were witness but chose to do nothing would you accept that?

Accept what? You sugest I would place the blame that someone else abducted my child on them? Or transfer the blame from me for not protecting MY OWN child?


It's for that reason people don't want to get involved.


I HAVE become involved in situations similar to what was used as the original example. I've broken up fights between kids in a mall, and I've pulled a kid out of the street infront of oncoming traffic.

Were any of those things my responsibility? Would I have been remiss for not becoming involved?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AggieDave 6]

You know, there are people out there that genuinely try to help people and will go out of their way to do so.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Richards 0]

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Of course I'd err on the side of caution, but a child? I'm stepping in. If that results in a knife to my throat, so be it. I absolutely couldn't bare the thought of seeing on television the sexually abused and battered body of said child found that I witnessed being abducted and did nothing about.

I agree. I would not want to spend the rest of my life knowing that I could have prevented it but walked by.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Rebecca 0]

I gotta lean towards Richards' position here, though I totally dig where you're coming from, too.

It would really depend on the situation, but say you're in a crowded public place - even the most responsible parent could lose a child to a predator in the blink of an eye.

Imagine Disney World - if you learned your screaming child were witnessed by PARENTS being abducted... I'd sure be pissed if no one alerted a security guard, simply because I couldn't imagine not saying, "Um, 'scuse me? That kid is screaming help - what's up?"

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[PLFXpert 0]

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As for a broken-down vehicle on the side of the road, these days most everyone has a cell to call for a tow or AAA. If I were a witness, though (ie: behind them in an accident or when they pulled over with their emergency lights) I would probably pull over to see if I coudl be of assistance.

Quoting myself I wanted to keep my story seperate from my overall response.

I've actually been in two situation where it was me pulled over and somone helped. It is nice to know, but I'm also female and young and so I was very hesitant to talk to or accept any offers of assistance. Once I swerved and 360'd into the median of a highway to avoid an accident that happened in front of me. A gentleman pulled over to make sure I was able to get my car out of the semi-ditch. I had my phone in hand ready to call 911---I figured I wasn't in too much danger since the cops were obviously going to be there soon anyways due to the accident. But he was very nice and wanted to make sure I knew how to start my car (I had a manual) in 2nd gear to get me out of the ditch and he gave me a push. I knew how and he pushed and I was out.

The second time...I was nauseus and (sorry to get graphic) needed to vomit. Mid-puke a guy was behind me asking if I was OK. I was and he followed me to a gas station where I could stop and use the restroom and wait for a friend.

You never know, either way. Both of these nice gentleman who helped me could have been rapists and attempted to overtake/abduct me. Both occured when I was 16. Thankfully both were nice and thankfully I was prepared if they weren't.

You just never know either way.

My point is that, if you accept that....then why not in good conscience do SOMEHING? Something can be ANYTHING than absolutely nothing.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[diablopilot 2]

I agree with you, in the sense I'd do something about it, but it is ludicris to "be pissed" at someone for something that is not their responsibility.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[PLFXpert 0]

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Would I have been remiss for not becoming involved?

Only you can answer that. There is no right or wrong answer to that. It's how one feels about it themselves and that is all that should matter.

To each their own. I mentioned in a PM I could actually debate and win an argument for both sides (intervening or not intervening) b/c either way you can't really blame or not blame someone depending on how you're looking at and from whose perspective.

My point of posting it was pure that NOTHING was done by ANYONE. (Until the end when a group of guys did jump in)

PS. I'm dissapointed in myself for not having the time today to re-read and edit myself for spelling grammar

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[LisaM 0]

Sad part is in this day and age you could get sued for helping!

Last year a guy in a Walmart shot a man who was attacking his ex (she was working behind the deli counter). The man had a "conceal license" but law says you can never take the gun into a bank or anywhere that sells liquor.. . and yes, this walmart had liquor. I don't recall what ended up haping...but last I heard was he was being investiaged. WHAT?! He saved tha twoman's life!!!

~ Lisa
~ Do you Rigminder?

[PLFXpert 0]

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Sad part is in this day and age you could get sued for helping!

or even NOT helping.

Lawsuits have been fought and won supporting both sides (intervening or not intevening).

The question of whether or not one SHOULD intervene or WOULD intervene (in this particular case) really doesn't have a whole lot to do with law due to my above statement.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[LisaM 0]

I suppose that is true too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

~ Lisa
~ Do you Rigminder?

[waltappel 1]

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I suppose that is true too. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, right?

Let me add one more thing to the mix. Can we be sure that this whole story was done and reported in an honest way?

With the media's history of abuses, how can we really know that the passersby were not actors? I consider the media to *easily* be sleazy enough to pull a stunt like that. Remember the following Dateline NBC incident?

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On 18 February 1993 Dateline NBC aired an investigative report about General Motors pickup trucks allegedly exploding upon impact during accidents, because fuel tanks were badly designed. Although there were fuel tanks design problems with GM cars before, Dateline's film showed a sample of a staged low speed accident with the fuel tank exploding. Dateline NBC did not disclose the fact that this accident was staged, or the fact that the only reason there was an explosion was that the vehicle contained planted explosives. The viewers were never told about it. It appeared to be a major discovery of investigative reporters. GM investigators discovered a mistake by a study of the Dateline film. GM subsequently filed an anti-defamation lawsuit against NBC.The lawsuit in question was quickly settled by NBC and as a result Brian Ross and a few persons responsible for the incident were fired from NBC, and Ross found employment with ABC News, where he continues to work to this day.

I'm not saying I think the media *did* stage the reactions of the passersby, but I hardly think the media in this country are above that kind of thing. They have proven themselves to be less than honest.

Think about it. Which would get them higher ratings, the result they showed, or one that showed that there are a bunch of really standup people walking around?

My vote is for the result they got. Again, I'm not saying they did--I'm saying they are well capable.

Walt

[vskydiver 0]

Having 4 kids myself, I've seen this many times. However NEVER from my own kids. Kids scream and throw tantrums all the time no matter where they are and everyone seems to accept it. I never let my kids scream when they were playing because how is anyone to know when they really need help? It just seems like it's easier to ignore kids than to help them.

***I felt like an ass for embarrassing the parents of a kid throwing a tantrum. But I wouldn't have been able to sleep if I didn't find out what was going on.


Hopefully after you questioned the parents of that kid that was throwing the fit they wised up and didn't put up with that from their kid anymore. Hopefully you did some good after all. Don't feel bad about it.

[Richards 0]

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To what level? Should they call the cops? Should they ask "What's going on here?" Should they restrain the adult?

It is each persons responsibility to set their own "moral obligation action meter".

I ask again, what would you have passer-byers do?

I am not suggesting that someone has to go kung-fu on someone. As Nightingale pointed out, merely having an adult saying "excuse me, what is going on here" will in often send a would be abductor packing. If he continues taking the child and you feel that would destroy you in a physical confrontation, then follow at a safe distance and start yelling yourself to get passersby to help, and get on your cellphone and dial 911. Just don't stand there and do nothing. The child being abducted could be raped, tortured and killed. Do what you reasonably can if you are not willing to risk physically intervening.

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Accept what? You sugest I would place the blame that someone else abducted my child on them? Or transfer the blame from me for not protecting MY OWN child?

Not blaming them for the abduction. Merely being furious that your child may now be dead and this person was there when he/she was abducted and might have been able to merely scare the person off just by speaking up but chose not to because he/she would rather not get involved.




It's for that reason people don't want to get involved.

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I do not follow? Please clarify

I HAVE become involved in situations similar to what was used as the original example. I've broken up fights between kids in a mall, and I've pulled a kid out of the street infront of oncoming traffic.

Were any of those things my responsibility? Would I have been remiss for not becoming involved***



With regards to the kids in the mall, sometimes it is best to let kids learn the hard way (provided it is not several kids against one, or a big kid against a small one). With respect to pulling the kid out of traffic yes.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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Last year a guy in a Walmart shot a man who was attacking his ex (she was working behind the deli counter). The man had a "conceal license" but law says you can never take the gun into a bank or anywhere that sells liquor.. . and yes, this walmart had liquor. I don't recall what ended up haping...but last I heard was he was being investiaged. WHAT?! He saved tha twoman's life

Regardless of how he reacted to the situation, he was in violation of the law, the minute he entered the store (unless he went in there to stop an attack in progress)

If you are attacked and there is an illegal weapon (not yours) within reach you are allowed to use it. If you are carrying one illegally, then you will not be charged for using it in self defence but you will be charged for having it on you in the first place. I agree with you in spirit but technically the charge is valid. Shame though because I love hearing about violent thugs getting lead poisoning.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[LisaM 0]

Oh it absolutely is valid... just stinks!

~ Lisa
~ Do you Rigminder?

[twibbles 0]

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Sad part is in this day and age you could get sued for helping!

Last year a guy in a Walmart shot a man who was attacking his ex (she was working behind the deli counter). The man had a "conceal license" but law says you can never take the gun into a bank or anywhere that sells liquor.. . and yes, this walmart had liquor. I don't recall what ended up haping...but last I heard was he was being investiaged. WHAT?! He saved tha twoman's life!!!

I hope he get's a small slap on the wrist for bringing a weapon into the store, and a whopping great commendation for stepping in and saving someone's life.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[Richards 0]

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Oh it absolutely is valid... just stinks!

I agree with you 100%

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Scoop 0]

Every person has a moral duty to assist. Was a fight outside my house last week which turned into a public disorder and someones car being smashed up. I went outside, found out what was going on, detained the 'offender' and called 999 just in time for more idiots to spill out of the house.

I've stopped and helped with first aid of people. Assisted at breakdowns, road traffic crashes.

When I've needed help people tend to walk on by and I remember how terrible it was, but one time when I injured myself badly and couldn't walk, a person heard my screams and came out of their house and helped me. I will remember that moment forever. When the good samaritan rescued me and potentially saved my life.

I believe the expression is... pay it forward. Please do