Removable Skydiving door for Grand Caravan

[skymoo 0]

We use a rental Grand Caravan for jumping the weekends. This is just about the only skydiving plane for the region. It is used for passangers during the week, and the owner has refused to place anything permanent on the door for us (such as a bolted plexiglass door), so we always jump without a door. We're pretty much used to it, except for long trips to far DZs we come up with. Then, the hour and a half plane ride there, sometimes at 14k, becomes quite cold and uncomfortable. Any suggestions on how we can have a door we can open, close, and completely remove after the last jump on Sunday on this Grand Caravan?

http://www.childrenofthesky.com

Freefly!

[darkwing 5]

In the old days we made a plexiglass door that clipped in place from the inside ofour twin beech. It worked pretty well. We were convinced that in an emergency we could exit right through it, which was probably true.

Unrelated to your question, but I sure wouldn't want to ride at 14,000 feet for 1 + hours, never mind the cold, my IQ would drop by a factor of 4, and I don't have much to spare. Oxygen is my brain's friend.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ast4711 0]

We currently have a 207 with a very interesing construction :-) :

The door consists of a wooden plate which some soft foam rubber on around the plate. The plate is a little larger than the door frame and we simply slide it forward to open it. I think, there is nothing permanent on the door frame and the wooden plate is held in place just by the air stream.

Don`t know if something like this would work on a caravan with the bigger door also, but if you like I could take some pictures next sunday and you could give it a try....

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[skymoo 0]

Thanks Alex, it would be cool to see those picts to come up with an idea... as for the IQ - I know! bad. My lips where purple on exit - hypoxic cyanosis is never good... we're looking into O2 bottles for now to prevent that.

Thanks for you input guys.. still looking for more temp door options

http://www.childrenofthesky.com

Freefly!

[vid666 0]

we have been flying a GC without a door for last 2 years.... and yeah, gets pretty nippy at altitude. For a while what we had was wide female velcro around the door perimeter - and used a sheet of soft plastic (clear) to cover it up, when it was jumprun, we took it off and rolled it up and hid it by the pilot. You could definitely exit through it if you wanted to... Alternatively you can just have a bunch of blankets on the plane :)

[riggerrob 643]

Hee!
Hee!
Floridians complaining about cold?
Not much sympathy from up North!

Seriously,
Take buddy's advice about gluing 2 inch pile Velcro around the door, then slapping on a sheet of Lexan, Cordura ... heck, even plywood will work.
Just slide it forward before exit.

[airdvr 210]

But it looks like a black garbage bag. It looks like it really wants to blow out bad...and I wonder about the ramifications of having it decide to exit at 500 feet or so. I envisioned it fouling on the elevators...not a pretty thought.

edited to add: I jumped the beech 18 at CSPC for years. It was rigged with a 4x8 sheet of plywood on hinges. On jump run it layed flat on the floor. Otherwise, it was held in the closed position with a 2x4. Not perfect, or pretty...but it beat those rides to altitude in the Caravan with the door off. Bought froze my ass off

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Derekbox 0]

Have you considered leaving the door on for the ferry? Removing it on site? I havent pulled a Caravan door before so I dont know the specifics, but I imagine it cant be to bad.

But I just want to throw this out there - be VERY careful with what you do to the airplane for a "temp door".

Personally I (I being your friendly dz.com A&P) could care less what you do, but the FAA very much does. Plexiglass doors are STC'd and certified for use. Anything you use to rig a door, on the other hand is not. Your owner and pilot are at risk for getting a nice little ass chewing from the FAA. Like I said I could care less, but watch out for the man.

Times a changing and the ole "back in the day" wont cut it with an inspector who is hell bent on finding something.

Watch your 6, the skydiving community is under the scope right now, when jump ships fall out of the sky, we all get put under microscopes.

[ast4711 0]

Hi!

here some pics of our door.... It looks that the frame inside the door was added and is non-standard, but you get the idea...

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[NickDG 23]

>>be VERY careful with what you do to the airplane for a "temp door".
I can back that up with some real world experience. I showed up for work one morning at a small So Cal DZ and the pilot asked me to help him flight test a door he'd, on his own, spent the night fabricating. It was to be just a quick flight to simulate a jump run, roll the door up and down once or twice, and return. Since actual jumping was to commence shortly I didn't stop to grab a rig. On the way to the plane another jumper named Larry asked to come along and we said sure. He didn’t bring a rig either.

The airplane was a front door C-206 and the door was the roll up Plexiglas type and I was tagged for this assignment not so much because I was the Instructor that would have to operate it, but I was also an A&P mechanic, although that wasn't part of my job at this DZ. Of course I looked the door over on the ground and rolled it up and down a couple of times. It looked like a lot of other doors I'd seen of the same type, as it had horizontal round metal bars that extended past the door frame and snap fasteners to hold it in place. I pushed and tugged on it a bit, pronounced it sound looking enough, and up we went.

The flight to 3000-ft went fine with the door down. It wasn't vibrating or moving around at all and the pilot was looking very pleased with himself. Larry and I were just sitting in the back chatting and drinking the coffee we'd brought with us. The pilot leveled off and slowed down and I undid the bottom of the door and rolled it up. No problem. Then I rolled it back down and secured it, again no problem. We then did a couple of higher than normal G turns and that all went okay too. We then headed back to the airport and Larry and I went back to our coffee.

As we started our decent, and picked up speed, the door started to vibrate enough that I reached over and put my hand on it. I was just about to suggest we slow down a tad when the metal bars folded in the middle and the door blew out. I've always found every aviation incident is the same. One second you're just sitting there having coffee and the next second your whole world turns into doggie-do.

The door, still attached at the top, became a thing possessed. It was thrashing wildly around and Larry and I were backed up as far away as possible as the metal bars crashed alternately up, down, and all around. It's hard to explain how violent it all was but I remember looking at Larry and his eyes were big as saucers. The thing then turned sideways and crashed into the window behind the door frame and we ducked as it shattered blowing large chunks of the Plexiglas all over us. Then, just as I thought it couldn't get any worse, it got worse.

The door turned vertical and began slamming hard into the bottom surface of the wing. The exposed metal bars started to puncture the lower wing surface and the rubber fuel bladder it contained and then the avgas started pouring out. And much of it was coming right into the cabin. "Get fucking rid of it!" The pilot was screaming, I then realized I still had my coffee cup in hand so I passed it off to Larry. I thought through what I was doing and I flashed on the door taking the tail off the aircraft, but it didn't matter as I couldn't get the upper snaps undone.

The only thing left was trying to grab hold of it and pull it back in. And this was when it fully dawned on me I wasn't wearing a rig. Larry grabbed me by the back of my jeans and I turned and gave him a quick look that said, don't you fucking dare let go of me. I had to climb out on the step to reach the bottom of the door and I tried to time it so as not to get hit but it was hard as now the avgas was drenching me and getting in my eyes. I put my left hand on the strut, my right foot on the step and reached out for it. I got it but it pulled from my grasp. I tried again and this time managed to hold on, "Slower!" I yelled to the pilot mindful the stall horn was already blowing, but I finally managed to get the bottom part on the door back in the airplane. And then it still took all my weight to hold it down with Larry pushing down on me. The fumes of the avgas were still thick in the cabin and I mentioned to the pilot that not flipping any electrical switches, including the radio, would be a good plan.

We finally landed, stopped, and got away from the aircraft as quickly as possible. And of course we were met by an irate DZO who at the sight of the damage started ripping into us hard, but glad to be alive I don’t think we cared too much. It was then Larry tapped me on the shoulder and when I turned, he smiled, and handed me back my coffee . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Derekbox 0]

... yes and that too. Who wouldve thought - one second happy hunky dory, the next punctured skin, avgas and climbout without a rig...

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Hi!

here some pics of our door.... It looks that the frame inside the door was added and is non-standard, but you get the idea...

Turbine 207?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ast4711 0]

Quote

Turbine 207?

exactly....

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[diablopilot 2]

Cool, how many do you get in that thing and what are the climb times like?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ast4711 0]

Well.... Currently we take only 6 jumpers, but only for some weird kind of administrative issues - don`t ask me why!

With 6 it is just a bit slower than our 206 turbine we ususally have. We notice the difference above FL120. My guess, it is not significantly slower below 120. I do not have any numbers, maybe I`ll time it someday...

I remember the first load with 7 where all were surprised that it was not as slow as everybody expected it.

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[riggerrob 643]

Quote

Well.... Currently we take only 6 jumpers, but only for some weird kind of administrative issues - don`t ask me why!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I suspect that limit is based on the number of seat belts installed when it left the Cessna factory.

• Quote

[ast4711 0]

No, it`s just because the club and the owner of the aircraft did not agree to a pricing scheme... :-(
I know it does not make much sense, but what should I say...?

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[riggerrob 643]

With 6 it is just a bit slower than our 206 turbine we ususally have. We notice the difference above FL120.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I suspect that is more of an engine limitation.
A DZO (who was also a retired US Army helicopter pilot) explained to me that Allison/Rolls Royce 250 turbine engines are strictly low-altitude engines. When they were originally designed - back in the 1960s for Bell 206 and Hughes 500 helicopters - no one expected them to be flown much above 10,000 feet.

[ast4711 0]

that may make sense....

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de