Unusual gear problem

[JohnRich 4]

The attached photo is a reenactment of a situation I noticed with a jumper's rig last weekend. The jumper has just over 100 jumps, was geared-up, and ready to head for the aircraft.

Can you spot the problem?
How would it have gotten that way?
What possible dangers could this present?

I commented to him; "You're scaring me", and then as I was pointing out and fixing the problem, I told him why that was dangerous and what could have happened. He replied: "You're scaring me." He got the lesson.

You never know what you'll turn up while scanning other people's gear...

[WatchYourStep 0]

Is that a rubber band covering the top of the 3 ring assembly?

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[councilman24 37]

The photograph quality sucks.... but that rubber band around the third ring will hold the 3 ring closed. I'm assuming the rubber band was on the guys rig. Can't tell for sure if the rings are threaded right.

Was the cutaway cable threaded normally? If so the opening load would have been taken by that. Any subsequent cutaway attempt would have failed. The rubberband might have held the opening shock also.

As to why. That would be one way to hold a riser on a rig while assembling a canopy. But I don't know why someone wouldn't use the cutaway cable. It also might be used by someone to help hold the loop in place to thread the cutaway cable. But I can't imagine some with much experience needing to do that.

So what was his explination?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Is that a rubber band covering the top of the 3 ring assembly?

Yes. The riser was threaded through the center of the rubber band.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Did the jumper just buy the main? I have seen the risers of mains rubber-banded together. If the rubber band wasn't removed, but slid up the riser, after installing the riser, it could have slid back down.

Derek

[monkycndo 0]

I've used a rubber band to hold my risers together for storage after I cut away my main to install a demo canopy. Maybe this person did the same and failed to remove the rubber band upon reinstalling the risers.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

The photograph quality sucks....

It was good at full resolution, but I had to downsize for the size limit here, and then that brown weave starts appearing kind of psychedelic.

Okay, I've done something else with that photo, and replaced the original. The new one now in post #1 is a little better.

Quote

but that rubber band around the third ring will hold the 3 ring closed. I'm assuming the rubber band was on the guys rig. Can't tell for sure if the rings are threaded right.

Was the cutaway cable threaded normally? If so the opening load would have been taken by that. Any subsequent cutaway attempt would have failed. The rubberband might have held the opening shock also.

As to why. That would be one way to hold a riser on a rig while assembling a canopy. But I don't know why someone wouldn't use the cutaway cable. It also might be used by someone to help hold the loop in place to thread the cutaway cable. But I can't imagine Tsome with much experience needing to do that.

So what was his explination?

The rings were threaded correctly, and several jumps had already been made with the rig this way, without anyone catching it before. So the danger was in the performance of the cutaway system during a malfunction, but not with normal jumps.

The rubber band was somewhat loose, and would slide up and down the riser. Whether or not there was sufficient clearance for the smallest ring to move properly, was questionable. Maybe, maybe not.

Note that the only way that rubber band could get on a riser like that is when the riser is disconnected from the rig.

It's possible that the rubber band was used to hold the two riser ends together while the canopy was removed, to keep them orderly to prevent twists and tangles. I do this myself. And then, when the canopy was re-attached, one riser was pulled out of the rubber band, and the rubber band was left over the other riser... Ack!

[Anvilbrother 0]

I bet it would have released. I would not trust my life to it tho. Great catch!!!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

I bet it would have released. I would not trust my life to it tho. Great catch!!!

I'm not sure... That small ring only exerts about 5-lbs. of force, or some small number like that. It doesn't take much to restrict it from operating.

[DontPanic 0]

You might well be right that it might be enough to keep it from releasing altogether.

Even if it released, it might delay the release. I notice there is no RSL connection in the picture. So if there is an RSL (not shown) on the opposite side, even a delayed release might cause a main/reserve entanglement.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I bet it would have released. I would not trust my life to it tho. Great catch!!!

Try it in a hanging harness, you'd be suprised how little force you need to "pinch" that small ring with to prevent a release.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[councilman24 37]

If the rubber band was over the third ring and loop I seriously doubt it would have released. It really, literally only takes two fingers to hold the three ring closed at that point. I've done it during intentional cutaways. And I feel no pressure from the ring. As stated above hang in a harness and try it.

That's why mis-matched to the rig reversed risers ("integrity risers") are dangerous and have killed.

I hadn't thought about it being left over from the risers being stacked and banded together to keep them straight. Probably the most likely source.

This points out that students need to be taught about their gear. I've run into jumpers with several hundred or more jumps who were not at all interested in even learning how to put together a three ring.

Sometimes I wish we were in the pre AAD days for experienced jumpers. Then everyone knew that once they left the airplane they were DEAD unless they took a positive action. I think it lead to a greater respect for the seriousness of the sport. Of course some of the craziest stuff was done back then but we knew we were risking out lives. Okay, rant over.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Anvilbrother 0]

Ok I tried it at work. I used an old set of the large type risers hung from the metal I-beam at the station. If you used a large rubber band like in the picture and it was on or above the little top ring it released due to the band being big, and having enough slack to flip over. If it was BELOW it would hang. I did not have any small rubber bands to try it on, but i'm almost positive it would keep it from releasing. Anyways this should never happen, and as I said at first I would never trust my life to it.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Hooknswoop 19]

What do I win?

Derek

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

AAGH! That's a scary one!

Quote

You never know what you'll turn up while scanning other people's gear...

Ain't that the truth. I pointed out a mis-routed cheststrap on a guy with 400 jumps when I had only about 25. I've seen 3-rings misrouted, and RSL's clipped to the large ring of the 3-ring. Main bridle routed out the bottom, pinned, then back in the top and out the bottom again. Reserve cables pulled out to the ball so that it goes out from under the flap and the pin is almost horizontal in the loop. The list goes on.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[Anvilbrother 0]

I also forgot to mention that I am currently 327lbs and I believe that each ring reduces force by 33% or something like that so the last ring if I am thinking right was producing either 35 or 11.5 lbs of force. The latter sounds right, I am not sure how many times to multiply by. I leave that up to bill lol!

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[JohnRich 4]

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This points out that students need to be taught about their gear. I've run into jumpers with several hundred or more jumps who were not at all interested in even learning how to put together a three ring.

Yes, and the sooner the better.

Just a few weeks ago from spotting this problem, I found a guy in the boarding area who had his disconnected RSL shackle clipped to his big 3-ring. And that guy has several hundred jumps. Ack! For people who don't understand how a 3-ring release works, it seems like a convenient place to keep that loose RSL from flopping around...

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

John,

If you said it and I missed it, my bad, but did the guy you found this on have any idea how or why the rubber band got there in the first place... like he had some sort of "idea" that made it a "good idea"... or was he just totally oblivious?

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Quote

...This points out that students need to be taught about their gear. I've run into jumpers with several hundred or more jumps who were not at all interested in even learning how to put together a three ring.

Sometimes I wish we were in the pre AAD days for experienced jumpers. Then everyone knew that once they left the airplane they were DEAD unless they took a positive action. I think it lead to a greater respect for the seriousness of the sport. Of course some of the craziest stuff was done back then but we knew we were risking out lives...

[rant]

Yeah, crap like that (a lack of understanding of one's skydiving gear) and a lack of respect for the seriousness of what it is we're doing from some folks out there in the skydiving verse ticks me off too. I mean, not everyone has to be a rigger, but if you're off student stauts and going to be throwing your soft pink breakable body out of an aircraft you ought to at least have more then just a little understanding of how your "life saving device" works (i.e. an understanding of its theory of operation), be able to recognize things that are wrong, why that's wrong and apply such knowlege to some new, but similar situations.... BUT there are some that don't or won't or are incappable and are of the (MISTAKEN) opinion that, "something bad happens to me, who or what can I blame". Happens some in skydiving, happens a lot in the rest of the world these days.

[/rant]

[billvon 3,116]

You think that's bad -

After landing once after a 10-way competition, I watched a guy have a cypres fire. He had switched audibles, and this new audible apparently sounded different. It was beeping at him, and he didn't know what to do, and his AAD fired while he was trying to sort it all out.

We picked him up in the truck. After picking him up I noted he had a tube stow tied around his reserve handle/MLW.

"Do you really want that tied around there?" I asked him.

"Yeah, it keeps my reserve from accidentally deploying when I ride my motorcycle."

"Well, great, but maybe you should take it off before you jump, so if you have to use your reserve you can, you know, pull it."

"Oh, this wouldn't stop me!"

"Try it."

"I don't want to dump my reserve . . . "

"It's dumped. You just had a cypres fire. You can't make it any worse."

"Oh yeah." He then tried to pull it. He got it to six inches and it popped out of his hand and whacked him in the chest. He got a better grip, pulled it out further - but his slack MLW came with it. He looked puzzled.

Everyone else in the truck was looking at this guy thinking "holy shit!" He had shown up specifically for this 10-way competition and was an "old time jumper" that a few people knew, but hadn't jumped in a while. Jack got a hold of him and had a long talk with him, and they found a substitute for their team.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

... I think I was on the load with that guy too.


You know, no one really "deserves" to die doing this "skydiving" thing... gravity doesn't care how many jumps, gold medals or how much "experience" you have... none of us are or will ever be "so good" that we won't die doing this... and all that... but at some point... come-on, if you're going to be sooo stupid, or ignorant, you'd be better off playing Russian Roulette with an automatic...

[JohnRich 4]

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did the guy you found this on have any idea how or why the rubber band got there in the first place... like he had some sort of "idea" that made it a "good idea"... or was he just totally oblivious?

I don't know at this point. He was on his way to the plane to make a night jump, and I couldn't hold up the load for a long talk. So I made it brief, and then didn't get back to him later to follow-up. I'm still curious too. I should see him this weekend, and I'll try and remember to ask him about it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Zig,

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gravity doesn't care how many jumps, gold medals or how much "experience" you have...

Think Rock Charme' (sp?) who had over 14,000 jumps and a low cutaway got him.

JerryBaumchen

[jacketsdb23 49]

...RSL's clipped to the large ring of the 3-ring....

Saw a RSL routed through the large ring of the 3-ring and then attached to the normal spot on the riser this past weekend at our boogie. Another jumper saw it on the plane during the ride to altitude. Scary. I'm not sure if the RSL would have worked its way through the large 3-ring or not. Glad it was caught.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[JohnRich 4]

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Saw a RSL routed through the large ring of the 3-ring and then attached to the normal spot on the riser this past weekend at our boogie. Another jumper saw it on the plane during the ride to altitude. Scary. I'm not sure if the RSL would have worked its way through the large 3-ring or not. Glad it was caught.

Or if the middle ring would have worked it's way through the large ring, with the RSL bridle in the way. Yikes!

It's amazing how much stuff like this you can find when you get into the habit of scanning people's gear.

The most common thing I find is the cutaway pillow folded back underneath the main lift web, out of sight (photo attached). Heck, I can catch one or two of those per month, at a DZ that's not even very busy.