Spectre?

[DSE 5]

Jumped a Spectre for the first time today; I'd been told that it has tremendous openings, always on heading, etc. and is a great "general" purpose canopy that can seriously fly if pushed.

My opinion (after only two jumps) is that while it is indeed wonderful at opening, on heading both jumps, even though I packed it differently for each jump....it's a sluggish canopy that doesn't offer much in the way of response to hard turn input (both harness and toggle), and doesn't flare as nicely as I'd been told.

Coupla caveats; It's a demo, so it's spankin' new and maybe isn't trimmed out like it might be were it a purchased canopy.

Also, winds were very high today, so both jumps were within 15-20 mph winds.

The penetration of the 170 Spectre was slightly less than my Silhouette.

Am I expecting too much, or is the Spectre really just an "all around/general purpose canopy" that might be great for accuracy, but not much performance for anything else?

[elias123 0]

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Jumped a Spectre for the first time today; I'd been told that it has tremendous openings, always on heading, etc. and is a great "general" purpose canopy that can seriously fly if pushed.

My opinion (after only two jumps) is that while it is indeed wonderful at opening, on heading both jumps, even though I packed it differently for each jump....it's a sluggish canopy that doesn't offer much in the way of response to hard turn input (both harness and toggle), and doesn't flare as nicely as I'd been told.

Coupla caveats; It's a demo, so it's spankin' new and maybe isn't trimmed out like it might be were it a purchased canopy.

Also, winds were very high today, so both jumps were within 15-20 mph winds.

The penetration of the 170 Spectre was slightly less than my Silhouette.

Am I expecting too much, or is the Spectre really just an "all around/general purpose canopy" that might be great for accuracy, but not much performance for anything else?

Hi,

I jumped a 7-cell Spectre 170 for the first time today (did 4 jumps with it and it was a no wind day) and personally I think Spectre is an awesome canopy! (What do you mean that it's a "sluggish" canopy?) The toggle input on the spectre was in my opnion quite good and altough I only stood up two out of four landings today, I'm guessing that in a windy day that it will flare quite well. I'm also quite sure that the Spectre is not just a canopy for accuracy. It is like you said just a great all round canopy I think, but I'm sure there are waaaay more experienced people on here who could give much more relevant information.

Blues
Eli

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[AggieDave 6]

The Spectre is definitely a good all around 7-cell canopy. Have you ever previously flown a 7-cell canopy? In my experience they definately flare a little bit differently then a typical modern 9-cell canopy. Even the more modern 7-cell designs. I've found that a slightly higher flare with a slightly quicker 2 position to the finish position works good. Obviously my technique may not work all that well for you, so please try it out for yourself with some altitude clear and pulls.

If you're not happy with the flare but like the performance of the Spectre then a Sabre2 would be definitely worth a demo if you haven't jumped one before.

In my experience you can get a lot out of a Spectre, even loaded up to about 1.7:1. I found that loading past that up to about 1.9 the canopy just SCREAMS out of the sky and it didn't perform well for me at that wingloading.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AndyMan 7]

I've never been impressed with the Spectre. There are better opening canopies, and canopies that are a lot more fun to fly.

I don't think the Spectre is an "all round" canopy. It seems to fill a niche for people who want slow openings, but aren't terribly interested in the other aspects of canopy flight.

For someone like you that has the experience, The Katana may be a better choice. It is an outstanding canopy for camera-flying jumpers who want canopy performance. Katana openings have been softer than any other canopy I've jumped, including Spectre's.

You will have no complaints of sluggishness. It flares beautifully.

They make them as large as a 170. Higher wingloadings should be approached carefully.

I do not recomend Saber 2's for camera jumpers. Their openings suck, comparatively.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[dragon2 2]

I loved my 2 spectres. Esp for wingsuit jumping, filming crw and camera jumping in general. There is a reason half the camera crew at World Team jumps a spectre

OTOH I liked the performance of my vengeance better and I now jump a safire, excellent choice for a cameraflyer, as is the pilot. I love not having to deal with the openings as much as i have to with a vengeance/katana etc, esp when wingsuiting but also in general. I like a little bit more forward speed than the spectre gave me, although the canopy i jump now is effectively 2 sizes smaller so not really fair. Haven't jumped a spectre 107 to compare...

Bottom line, there is no better canopy if you want to have a relaxed trouble free opening. My first choice for new winguiters (and old....) .For more performance in-flight, a 9cell would be better... Although seeing Bruno swoop his spectre, there is plenty of performance to be had if you know how to fly it (and have the wingloading LOL)

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kschilk 0]

Beware of anything touted (especially in ads) as being "all around", "all purpose", "full spectrum", "all in one", etc....usually means that it's barely tolerable for most anything and does absolutely nothing, well. Most often, it was a shot a a specific purpose item that failed...so they dump it out as an "all around" product, to recover their investment. Spectres seem to be like Triathlons...ya' either love 'em, or ya' loathe 'em.

[Andy9o8 2]

I came up in the sport back when pull altitudes were lower and canopies opened faster than today. When I got recurrent a couple years ago after a long layoff, I jumped a borrowed Sabre-1 for a while. It was fine, but the occasional hard openings got the attention of my over-40 body.

When I was ready to buy my own modern canopy, I demoed a Spectre first, because it had a reputation for soft openings. It did have beautiful, soft openings, and I really liked that, but the looong snivel was still foreign to my mindset at the time, and that made me nervous. It flew and landed just fine, but I didn't have much basis of comparison.

Then I jumped the Pilot, which I loved. Openings were comfy and on-heading, but didn't take forever; it was more responsive and flared better than the Spectre, and I really dug the shallow glide and good penetration - so that's what I got, and have. I'm very happy with it.

Having said that, when I buy my next canopy, I'm leaning toward the Spectre, mainly because I'm starting to feel sore on Monday morning after a weekend of jumping, so a soft opening is increasingly more important to my middle-aged spinal column, and I'm willing to trade off a bit of responsiveness to get that. But if that wasn't as much of a factor, I'd probably go with another 9-cell.

[altichick 1]

After years of jumping 9 cells (sabre / exe etc) i switched to a spectre last summer and I love it! I have 2 rigs and have something a bit faster in the 2nd rig but for wingsuit jumps, demos and aff jumps with lots of weight on i'll always pick the spectre.

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[darkwing 5]

There are many great canopies, and the Spectre is one of them. Greatness depends on what you want it for. Don't let someone else's definition of greatness dictate yours. Decide what you want/need in a canopy, and find one that does that (if you can). It becomes your great canopy. I get tired of hearing "but that canopy doesn't... as well as ...." There is no ONE greatest canopy.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[stratostar 5]

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There is no ONE greatest canopy.

Here fixed it for ya, "There is only ONE greatest canopy, an open one."

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 5]

A couple more jumps...this just isn't the canopy for me.
It's smooth and soft on the open, on heading, but not terribly responsive, not in the way I'm familiar with. It lands nicely, easy to hit a mark with, and maybe trimmed correctly, has a great flare. I'll stick with the Silhouette. If I was doing a lot of demos, then it probably would be my choice, however.

[airdog07 0]

you can't compare 7cell to 9cell, If they have demo safire try it you well like it nice opening, grate flare

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[Unstable 9]

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you can't compare 7cell to 9cell, If they have demo safire try it you well like it nice opening, grate flare

I Agree - comparing a 7-Cell to a 9-Cell is kinda like comparing apples to Oranges.
Personally, I've had a good 300 jumps on various 7-celled canopies (Spectre, PD193, Triathlon, and Synergy) and I felt the Spectre Performed Very well. I flew it at about 1.3ish, and it had snappy turns and was really easy to land. I liked how it's shorter arc recovery length would make it a touch harder to put yourself in a corner with.

There a a few folks at my DZ that spend a good amount of time warning prospective canopy buyers to steer far far away from anythinig 7-cells - and I just tell younger jumper to try it out and see what they think - there is nothing wrong with a spectre.

=========Shaun ==========

[airdog07 0]

there is noting wrong with 7cell, I started jumping a Triathlon and that opening is great never had hard opening or bad line twist I love that canopy, every body should demo 7cell so they know how a reserve well land and flare, than I jump cobolt that thing can swoop and the shut downs is grate,
I had the hardest opening on specter,

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[bwilling 0]

There's a reason the manufacturers make both 7 cell and 9 cell canopies... different strokes for different folks.

For the brief period of this weekend, I owned and jumped both a Silhouette 230, and a Spectre 230. They're very different canopies, but I didn't think the Spectre was 'sluggish' compared to the Silhouette, and I'm curious as to why you felt this was the case. I actually like both of those canopies very much, and would be very happy jumping either of them.

Certainly the opening are different, the Spectre snivels forever compared to the Silhouette, but the Silhouette still manages to open orderly and softly. I thought turn rates were pretty comparable, with an edge to the Silhouette. Front riser pressure was definitely lighter on the Specter, but both have a short recovery arc and not much over steer. And I can land either canopy, just fine!

Jeez, just pick one, how could you go wrong?

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[popsjumper 2]

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...There a a few folks at my DZ that spend a good amount of time warning prospective canopy buyers to steer far far away from anythinig 7-cells...

Sounds like canopy snobs who have no clue WTF they're talking about. An all-too-prevalent attitude these days.


We had a PD "rep" visit us a while back. When I told him I jump a Triathlon, he got all over my ass about how Aerodyne was shit and PD was the only way to go.
Stupid fucker. I finally had to tell him to STFU and stuff his PD up his ass.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

I have about 450 jumps on my Spectre 150, loaded about 1.05:1. The opens are nice, it's forgiving for body position, minor mals like line twists or a popped brake on opening have never been a big deal, easy to fix. Even when I had my line over, the thing flew in a straight line before I chopped it.

Factory setting for brake length was too long for me, I'm only 5'3", but shortening them 3" gave me very nice flares and zippier turns (have you tried wrapping the brake lines to flare/turn?).

Getting back from a long spot is easy with it, accuracy easy. It's not the easiest to turn front riser wise, but not bad either.

I just ordered a Sabre2 135, time to get something a little zippier, and I loved the demo time I had with one, but I'm keeping the Spectre, it has too many good points for me to want to stop jumping it completely.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[NewGuy2005 53]

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We had a PD "rep" visit us a while back. When I told him I jump a Triathlon, he got all over my ass about how Aerodyne was shit and PD was the only way to go.
Stupid fucker. I finally had to tell him to STFU and stuff his PD up his ass.

Sounds like a canopy snob who has no clue WTF you're talking about. An all-too-prevalent attitude these days.

Sorry, someone had to do it!!

[darkwing 5]

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We had a PD "rep" visit us a while back. When I told him I jump a Triathlon, he got all over my ass about how Aerodyne was shit and PD was the only way to go.
Stupid fucker. I finally had to tell him to STFU and stuff his PD up his ass.

I wonder how much of a "PD Rep" he was, because the response he gave you was markedly at odds with reps I have spoken with. Generally reps for all the companies are fairly kind to the competition. What goes around, comes around.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[DSE 5]

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There's a reason the manufacturers make both 7 cell and 9 cell canopies... different strokes for different folks.

For the brief period of this weekend, I owned and jumped both a Silhouette 230, and a Spectre 230. They're very different canopies, but I didn't think the Spectre was 'sluggish' compared to the Silhouette, and I'm curious as to why you felt this was the case. I actually like both of those canopies very much, and would be very happy jumping either of them.

Certainly the opening are different, the Spectre snivels forever compared to the Silhouette, but the Silhouette still manages to open orderly and softly. I thought turn rates were pretty comparable, with an edge to the Silhouette. Front riser pressure was definitely lighter on the Specter, but both have a short recovery arc and not much over steer. And I can land either canopy, just fine!

Jeez, just pick one, how could you go wrong?

Given that I *currently* own three Silhouettes, I guess you could say I've "chosen one." I've got approx 500 jumps on the Silhouettes, but have also kept an open mind for various canopies. I went straight from a PD230 9 cell to a Silhouette 190 on the recommendation of Sparky, and have been quite pleased.
I'll jump the Spectre for one more day, but my feeling is that the canopy isn't nearly as responsive as the Silhouette. Second jump, I took a wrap to see if the brake lines were simply too long. I think I could probably go three wraps to get a better attack on the turns. With one wrap, the brake was nearly to a stall length (down near my waist) before the canopy would give me an aggressive turn.
Yes, front risers are easier on the Spectre, but I'd expect them to be.
I'll give it one more go.

[pilotdave 0]

You might just not like the spectre.
I was about to buy one after demoing it. Then I put 2 jumps on a demo sabre2 and knew right away I didn't want a spectre. 1000 jumps on my sabre2 later, I don't regret it! But I know a lot of people that much prefer the way the spectre flies (and lands). I don't get it, but a lot of people don't get why I'm happy with a wingloading of ~1.1 either.
Dave

[bwilling 0]

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Second jump, I took a wrap to see if the brake lines were simply too long. I think I could probably go three wraps to get a better attack on the turns.

Yeah, some of what we perceive has to do with how the canopy is set up. When I first got my Silhouette the brakes were set so tight that any movement of a toggle initiated a turn. Unfortunately it was so tight that the canopy wasn't ever flying full speed so I had my rigger loosen it up. Maybe too much. Then I had a couple of inches of slack to pull out before anything would happen. It was a different feel for sure.

I agree that the Silhouette is snappier turning than the Spectre, which makes sense since it's got more shaping on the trailing edge then the Spectre. It's all relative though, when I think sluggish, I think back to my old PD260 9 cell... now that thing was sluggish!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[skybytch 273]

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is the Spectre really just an "all around/general purpose canopy" that might be great for accuracy, but not much performance for anything else?

The Spectre is a good choice for non-swoopers who want a canopy they can use for accuracy (demos), casual CRW, camera jumps (nice slow openings), and (I think) easy landings. At 1.1, the one I'm flying turns and flies fast enough for a non-swooping conservative type like myself.

It's entirely possible that you're just one of those people who prefer 9 cells. Don't worry, we won't think any less of you for it.

[Butters 0]

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It's entirely possible that you're just one of those people who prefer 9 cells. Don't worry, we won't think any less of you for it.

Yeah, we only think less of the people who prefer 5 cells.

Do you believe a harness/container plays a role in openings?

I have a PD Spectre 150 loaded at 1.1. The openings are "slow, soft and on-heading" and "fast, hard and on-heading" depending on how I pack it. (Note, I deploy in a max track.) I am still playing with the canopy. It can be an extremely nice canopy when it opens "slow, soft and on-heading" and I have the sky to myself (so I can play with the risers and toggles).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[popsjumper 2]

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...I wonder how much of a "PD Rep" he was, because the response he gave you was markedly at odds with reps I have spoken with. Generally reps for all the companies are fairly kind to the competition. What goes around, comes around.

Yes, he was a one-of-a-kind. Never met any other rep that was anywhere near that far off the scale.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239