Wings Spacer Foam

[derrickiv 0]

'Bout to order a new Wings, and don't really understand how necessary the Spacer Foam is.

I did a search and I couldn't find much. I find one single poster that thought it wasn't really necessary if you got a custom rig, because it already fit you.

The foam is $150, while a quilted backpad is only $30. Any suggestions as to which, or if I even need anything at all? I'm guessing it would help resale value if I went with spacer foam and that would be nice.

Again, thanks for your help.

[gjhdiver 0]

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'Bout to order a new Wings, and don't really understand how necessary the Spacer Foam is.

I did a search and I couldn't find much. I find one single poster that thought it wasn't really necessary if you got a custom rig, because it already fit you.

The foam is $150, while a quilted backpad is only $30. Any suggestions as to which, or if I even need anything at all? I'm guessing it would help resale value if I went with spacer foam and that would be nice.

Again, thanks for your help.

The spacer foam is really comfortable. You don't feel it too much in freefall, but in the plane and under canopy,. it's like sitting in a nice soft armchair. I'd go for it if you have the money for the option.

[Blink 1]

"Quilted" is just stitching in a diamon pattern on the back, no padding.
<><><>
<><><>
<><><>
<><><>

Kinda like that :P.

[airdog07 0]

there is lot of other people have thousand of jump without space foam, it is not necessity it just to look good and for the manufacture to make more profit.

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[Blink 1]

There's a lot of people with jumps on rounds too, just new technology and more comfort.

[airdog07 0]

my rig is comfortable with out it, for $150 I rather make more jump and have fun than have a rig with all the option and after 3 to 4 years it well be worth half the price you pay for if your lucky you can sell it that is

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[gjhdiver 0]

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there is lot of other people have thousand of jump without space foam, it is not necessity it just to look good and for the manufacture to make more profit.

People did thousands of jumps with capewells before 3-rings came along. 3-rings are just there t make the rig look good and make the manufacturer money.

See how silly you sound ?

The spacer foam adds a huge level of comfort to the rig. On the Wings, it's an option. If you don't want it, just don't tick the box. Wings spent a lot of time sourcing the foam to try to get the most durable and affordable material for the spacer backpad. That stuff is very expensive to buy even in bulk. There's very little profit in offering it, but it's there if you want it. I have two rigs, one with and one without. I notice the foam under canopy, but both rigs are very comfortable.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

I have three wings with the "quilted" backpad and one with the new spacer foam. The spacer-equipped rig sits a bit thicker on my shoulders, but is super comfortable. That said, the "older" quilted pad is plenty nice. One benefit to the spacer pad is it allows a bit of air to get between you and your rig. While I originally thought it would just fill with body odor, it's actually not gotten stinky at all. I have been wearing it all spring/summer long here in Z-hills and it's like an oven. I have grown to really like the spacer foam. Just tell Ankie I said you wanted "stinky pad" on your rig; she'll appreciate it.

Chuck

[airdog07 0]

People did thousands of jumps with capewells before 3-rings came along. 3-rings are just there t make the rig look good and make the manufacturer money.
---------------------------------------------------------
from uspa.org
http://www.uspa.org/Publications/parachutist/online%20archives/2007/02.07/capcom02.07.htm

In the '80s, the sport continued to grow rapidly along with real progress in reducing accidents. Bill Booth's
3-ring canopy release system replaced Capewells, allowing both risers to release simultaneously and quickly. Fortunately, the slider replaced the rings-and-ropes deployment system, necessitating fewer cutaways. During this decade, skydivers reduced the annual fatality average to 34.1.

See how silly you sound ?
---------------------------------
cadwell and three ring is safety issue more than a comfort is it ?
also I have a right to voice my opinion even it sounds silly or not

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[vid666 0]

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People did thousands of jumps with capewells before 3-rings came along. 3-rings are just there t make the rig look good and make the manufacturer money.
---------------------------------------------------------
from uspa.org
http://www.uspa.org/Publications/parachutist/online%20archives/2007/02.07/capcom02.07.htm

In the '80s, the sport continued to grow rapidly along with real progress in reducing accidents. Bill Booth's
3-ring canopy release system replaced Capewells, allowing both risers to release simultaneously and quickly. Fortunately, the slider replaced the rings-and-ropes deployment system, necessitating fewer cutaways. During this decade, skydivers reduced the annual fatality average to 34.1.

See how silly you sound ?
---------------------------------
cadwell and three ring is safety issue more than a comfort is it ?
also I have a right to voice my opinion even it sounds silly or not

actually, if you re-read the post you replied to VERY CAREFULLY - you sound like an asshat.

nobody is forcing the spacer foam down your throat, it is an option - you are essentially arguing with yourself. Not a single person said "it's necessary", the only opinions here so far as "it's super-duper comby". And I side with that.

oh yeah, it's CAPEWELLS, not CALDWELLS :)

[MikeForsythe 0]

The D3 spacer fabrics are a nice option for comfort and ventilation. Three-dimensional knit spacer fabrics are the next dimension, beyond foam and neoprene, for maximizing breathability, insulation, compression, durability and recovery.

With that said, not all spacer fabrics are equal nor is the design of how it is placed on the container. There are different thicknesses (1.5m-15mm) to start with and if you look at how it is put on the Vectors you will see that it allows for both added air flow and flexibility over containers that have just used it as a back pad. It is also nice to have on the leg pads.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[teason 0]

Another nice thing about the foam is that because of how it is designed, it allows the manufacturer to put more padding in without that much extra bulk or weight that came from the old foam padding that was used before.

I put old foam on one of my rigs when I built it and it just added bulk and weight with very little extra comfort. The new style foam out there is far superior.

Also, if you are familiar with the way high end back packs are designed, they place a pad on each shoulder and one on the lumber to allow air flow behind the back while hiking. UPT copied this to achieve the same effect.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[airdog07 0]

some people try to save every dollar so they can make a jump (me for instance) , If you can afford all the bling bling go for it, but most of the container is pretty comfy as is. If I can afford it, I sure like couple rig and jump suit to match.

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[skreamer 1]

I opted against spacer foam on my new rig because I don't like the added bulk. I also have concerns regarding the durability of the material covering the foam (on any manufacturer's rig). Go ask a rigger how they'd feel about replacing any part of the spacer foam cover.

At 11 jumps I'd strongly recommend you buy second hand and spend all the saved money on staying as current as possible and getting good freefall and canopy instruction.

[MikeForsythe 0]

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I also have concerns regarding the durability of the material covering the foam (on any manufacturer's rig). Go ask a rigger how they'd feel about replacing any part of the spacer foam cover.

First of all it is not foam and it is not covered by anything as it is a weave. It is fire retardant, won’t delaminate, and does not have the dryness, yellowing, heavy weight, moisture retention or flakiness of foam. As for replacing it that would be the same as replacing the back pad which is a pain in the butt. So what are you concerns about the durability?

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[bob.dino 1]

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'Bout to order a new Wings, and don't really understand how necessary the Spacer Foam is.

It's completely unnecessary. But it is comfy. The spacer foam on my Icon is wonderfully comfy under canopy, particularly when doing a hop n pop from height.

If you have $150 burning a hole in your pocket, go for it. If spending that cash will mean you get to jump less, go without.

[derrickiv 0]

Thanks everyone, I'm going to go ahead and get it. I can finally put in my container order! In the long run, I don't think the $150 will have *that* much of an impact (I hope, if it does, I should probably find a cheaper sport). Maybe it'll even help for resale if I am to ever sell it, all else being equal..

Also, just to answer an earlier point, reason I'm going with a brand new rig as opposed to used is that cost difference works out too not be that bad for me, and I'd rather have something that I like, than settle for something I mostly like for a bit cheaper. I hope to keep this for quite some time and in the end it should pay for itself.

Thank you again for the commments!

[skreamer 1]

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First of all it is not foam and it is not covered by anything as it is a weave.

Then why do all the manufacturers refer to it as foam? As for durability - a regular/deluxe/quilted backpad is covered by cordura (or parapack) which is more durable than the fabric covering the product formerly known as spacer foam.

[MikeForsythe 0]

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Then why do all the manufacturers refer to it as foam?

That would be a question to ask the manufactures but I guess because it has foam characteristics. The manufacture of the D3 spacer fabrics calls it fabric, but hey, what would they know they only make it.

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a regular/deluxe/quilted back pad is covered by cordura (or Para pack) which is more durable than the fabric covering the product formerly known as spacer foam.

Says who? What do you base that on? Also again, there is no cover over the spacer fabric, it is the cover.

Here is the link to the manufacture of the D3 spacer fabric that most of the US manufactures and I use.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[skreamer 1]

Doing research with full-time riggers at Eloy and Empuria Brava in the last year, also many experienced, current skydivers. Also lengthy discussions with a full-time master rigger here in UK who works closely with a manufacturer. I do not believe the mesh on spacer foam is as durable as cordura or parapack.

Now maybe you should go educate all those manufacturers about wrongly using the word foam.

[MikeForsythe 0]

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Doing research with full-time riggers at Eloy and Empuria Brava in the last year, also many experienced, current skydivers. Also lengthy discussions with a full-time master rigger here in UK who works closely with a manufacturer. I do not believe the mesh on spacer foam is as durable as cordura or parapack.

Let me rephrase the question.......on what objective quantitative data do you base your statement? I am not saying that you are wrong or right, it is just that all that you have said so far is non-quantitative and subjective.

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Now maybe you should go educate all those manufacturers about wrongly using the word foam.

I don't have to I know what it is

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[skreamer 1]

Hell, if I had objective quantitative data I would not be saying 'I believe' and 'I have concerns', I would make a statement such as "Spacer mesh is less durable than 1000D Cordura". If you could send me a piece of spacer material I'll gladly arrange for an abrasion test comparison (hell, I'll even buy the sandpaper ).

Take a look at this pic of Cordura after a 3000 cycle abrasion test : http://www.cordura.com/FAQ.html. I do not believe the mesh/fabric covering spacer foam is as durable. Tell you what, I'm going to drop Gehring an email and ask them for the results of the abrasion testing on D3 spacer covering.

[JerryBaumchen 1,446]

Here is another source:

John Heathcoat & Co., Ltd.
Westexe, Tiverton, Devon
EX165LL England UK
Phone: 44 (0) 1884 254949
www.heathcoat.co.uk
info@heathcoat.co.uk

JerryBaumchen

[gjhdiver 0]

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I do not believe the mesh/fabric covering spacer foam is as durable.

Of course it isn't you silly bugger That's why it's an option. Most people take care of their rigs and try to avoid dragging them on the floor. For most applications, it's more than durable enough. If there's an unusual problem with wear, we'll fix it for any customer.

Also, cast iron is more durable than cordura, but I don't think we will offer it any time soon

[skreamer 1]

Thank you, you silly old fart. Might like to see some qualitative, quantitative proof of the cast iron vs cordura claim though.