lauraliscious 0 #26 July 17, 2007 Quote In general you can swap riser but in the case of reverse risers on a javelin and a pilot chute in toe its not good. Yeah, be careful with riser swapping. I was jumping the Icon risers (thrown in when I bought my Pilot) on my Mirage container until an S&TA said something about it. The 3 ring on the Icon is elongated and my Mirage is made for mini-risers. The effect was that the middle ring was actually larger than the inner diameter of the big ring. I had several people look at it, and it *likely* would have released properly during a cutaway, but we did manage to get it in a configuration by pulling it on the ground where the middle ring was turned funny and wouldn't release. I switched back to my Mirage risers immediately. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicGuy 0 #27 July 18, 2007 I have Aerodyne risers on my Wings currently, only after calling Aerodyne and asking them about it. They told me that they were tested on rigs made in the US and all of them were approved. She said that only a couple European rigs didn't work due to the size of the main (largest) ring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #28 July 18, 2007 Well, I was just uncomfortable with it after seeing it actually get in a locked up configuration on the ground. Odds are it wouldn't happen, but I don't want to take any extra unnecessary chances. If Aerodyne said it's fine, I'm sure it is but it just made me nervous. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #29 July 18, 2007 Yea well finding out the hard way it won't work could ruin your whole day. you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #30 July 18, 2007 Quote I have Aerodyne risers on my Wings currently, only after calling Aerodyne and asking them about it. They told me that they were tested on rigs made in the US and all of them were approved. She said that only a couple European rigs didn't work due to the size of the main (largest) ring. They were approved by whom? The specific rig manufacturer should be contacted to see if they approve of other manufacturer's risers being installed on their H/C.(i.e. Sun Path, UPT, VSE,etc...) Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #31 July 18, 2007 Odd???? Sounds like a "table total." As far as I know, the only compatibility question about Aerodyne's Mini-Force risers is the length of the cutaway housing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #32 July 18, 2007 There is another problem, and mainly since several companies are making breakaway rings. You have to know that moving from one brand to an other the ring sizes are not exactly the same and mainly the big and the medium one. This meant you cannot be sure by switching from one system to another made by different manufacturers that the cutaway system will work properly. Nothing look like another 3 rings system except the one made for your rig, which is made to be the one.Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #33 July 18, 2007 QuoteWell, I was just uncomfortable with it after seeing it actually get in a locked up configuration on the ground. You can make the Aerodyne risers lock up on an Icon if the rings are twisted on the ground. I also see a lot of dual hawks with twisted up three rings from the way the TM's throw them down. I think Rob is right, "a table total". If the risers are loaded they can't be in that twisted position as well, I trust the system, I think this problem can only be caused on the ground. Karl was at my dz this weekend, and almost all of his demo's were on mini-force risers. I am pretty confident that they insured compatibility first!!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #34 July 18, 2007 Quotethey can't be Never say can't, you can fool yourself all you want to, but in the many years I have been involved in the sport I have seen many things happen that a lot of others said "can't" happen, cuz it can happen and your putting out bad advice to others as to mix and matching parts. My guess is your not a rigger and with one year in the sport you couldn't start to understand the many different types components readly avaiable on todays market, do you know what large rings have been known to distort and become oblonged and cause a fail to release and do you know how to identify them? I didn't think so.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #35 July 18, 2007 Lets go ahead and take what I said totally out of context. She said that she got aerodyne miniforce risers to lock up on her non aerodyne rig. I was simply pointing out that you can do the same thing with aerodyne riser and an aerodyne icon. If I thought it was possible to duplicate the lock up I can create on the ground with my risers while on a jump then I wouldn't jump my Icon. If you disagree please share with us. I don't mind being wrong, but I don't want to be dead wrong. Oh and for the record I already know about the batch of large rings that weren't properly manf. do I get a gold star. I hardly see what it has to do about mini force risers locking up when they are turned 90 sideways; besides shouldn't you riggers be cutting the faulty hardware off. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #36 July 18, 2007 Quotepointing out that you can do the same thing with aerodyne riser and an aerodyne icon. True, but how do you know for sure it can't happen in the air on your rig or another MFG. Again never say never, with anything new on the market your a test jumper, many tested designs have later came to light it wasn't such a great idea, blast handles, plastic martin backers ect to name a few. QuoteIf you disagree please share with us. Yes I disagree and think it is a bad idea for the many people I see run out a buy parts for their rig without any thought as to it's use, while many parts will interchange there are other things to consider besides "will it relsease" as Rob pointed out the cables. QuoteOh and for the record I already know about the batch of large rings that weren't properly manf. do I get a gold star. I hardly see what it has to do about mini force risers locking up when they are turned 90 sideways; besides shouldn't you riggers be cutting the faulty hardware off. Sure, one gold star for you! Sould those rings be disposed of? YES but in todays age of ebay and every dumbass who find some old crap in an attic and sells it, there are those noobs who try to save money and buy junk because they don't call or email a rigger in the know, same with mixing parts.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #37 July 18, 2007 QuoteOdd???? Sounds like a "table total." As far as I know, the only compatibility question about Aerodyne's Mini-Force risers is the length of the cutaway housing. What is a "table total"? I did a search and couldn't find anything. I'll post pics tomorrow that I took while I was evaluating this issue (it was last year sometime). I looked at the Icon big ring then too, and it is bigger than the ones on my Mirage. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #38 July 19, 2007 Quoteyou couldn't start to understand the many different types components readly avaiable on todays market, do you know what large rings have been known to distort and become oblonged and cause a fail to release and do you know how to identify them? I didn't think so. I agree but with a vernier caliper you should be able to control the dimensions and distorting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #39 July 19, 2007 What is a "table total"? I did a search and couldn't find anything. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A "table total" is a total malfunction on the packing table. (IOW a failure to deploy.) You could also think of a "tt" as a magician's trick that cannot be reproduced in the air. For example, last year, one manufacturer slandered another by "table totalling" a reserve container. The fact that he demonstrated pulling a bridle at 90 degrees from the normal deployment angle was ignored. Given enough imagination - you can "table total" any rig on the market. However, air flow, turbulence, vibration, harness flexing, etc. tend to clear most of those "table totals" within a fraction of a second. Another example is pulling the ripcord handle on the ground. If you just lay a harness flat on the table, ripcord pull forces will be "stupid" hard. However, if you wrap the harness over your shoulder, ripcord pull forces will suddenly drop to within acceptable limits (10 kg or 22 pounds). The you have to ask yourself if "table tests" - outside the design range - are meaningful???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #40 July 19, 2007 "... todays market, do you know what large rings have been known to distort and become oblonged and cause a fail to release ..." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by "today's market?" The last batch of soft 3-Rings was made in 1983. Soft batches are clearly stamped "RW-1-82" or "RW-1-83." All those soft rings should have been cut off DECADES AGO and replaced by screw-in RW-6 rings. I never trusted the Rockwell hardness testing method and never had access to a tensiometer strong enough for the other method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #41 July 19, 2007 I mean in todays market you can get the modern hardware and still find all the old stuff too (I have a handful of speed links for example), while one might not buy "RW-1-82" or "RW-1-83." from paragear today, there are a lot of old rigs found on ebay or closets for example, and believe it or not I know young (young as in age) riggers and want to be riggers (those who don't hold tickets) who don't know about the soft batches of rings and are so stupid they would hook up a canopy to them and sign of as airworthy. These same idiots I have seen try to re-invent the wheel because they were board one rainy day at the dz and start digging around the old shit bins and use stuff they know nothing about, but think they do, or rig up a chest mount without cross connectors to jump. You know as well as I do people use all kind of non-original equipment cuz of the cool factor and never talk to a rigger about compatibility of the parts. And that is the point I was making not that it is common to people still using those rings.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #42 July 20, 2007 Wow! We two grumpy old bastards agree on something. Just last night, I helped my apprentice assemble and pack a Swift 5-cell reserve into a Swift II container. At the conclusion of the lesson, he concluded that he would never pack another 5-cell Swift. The bottom line is that "closet queens" are far more headache than the average junior rigger can handle. Closet Queens are high risk, low return. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #43 July 20, 2007 Oh come on now, we agree on most things most of the time. And if I can't what I'm looking for in a book I ask you and other grumpy old bastards..... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
