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Michele

SAR/SAR Dogs

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I know that some of you are SAR, and might have SAR dogs. This is an area I am very interested in. I don't have the room at the moment for a dog, but if I did, what dog would you recommend? Any sites that are good for reading? How about the whole FEMA deal - how does one go about getting certified for that? Best training methods for trailing? Air scenting? Cadaver? Water? (I love newfies, and think that a newfie would be a damned good dog for water SAR).

It's not like I can do anything right now, but I would love to learn more about it. Additionally, I'd love to get involved with volunteer SAR here in Los Angeles. Any idea how to go about that?

Thanks in advance!

Ciels-
Michele

ETA: BTW, the recent thread about helper dogs got me going again on this subject; it doesn't seem as if there are enough dogs to be able to get them to everyone, and some recent failed searches for missing people (by failed I mean not found, or found too late) because there were no dogs available (and that might've made a difference).


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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If you are serious about SAR and Dogs then, like skydiving, do your homework first. A dog is for life and getting the right breed (there are many that are suitable) is only part of the equation. Since you can't get a dog now, it would be a great time to learn the basics of SAR, and get good at that before you expand to a dog program.

California has a number of SAR teams and they are professional groups that make a significant difference. There are also wannabe's that do SAR and volunteerism no good. Choose wisely grasshopper. A good place to start is with CERT training which will help you network with local law enforcement and fire rescue. They in turn can steer you in the right direction. Some communities will use volunteer SAR and some will not.

As for Dogs and Newfies, if you PM me I'll give you the name of a lady that trains for SAR with Newfies. I've known two people with Newfs that were both concientious and professional and very competent. The Newf is a specialist and has strengths and weaknesses.

The expense in time and money is great. You are risking a persons life if you aren't trained to a high level and that training requires extreme commitment. FEMA dogs are also specialists and require testing and certification. Their handlers are often training 30 hours or more a month.

SAR is a statistical exercise. Human ground search is slow but when done properly very effective. It is resource limited, so you put those assets in the highest probability areas. Dogs cover more ground faster but can be less effective so you put them in lower probability areas. It is as important to know where the lost person is not and clearing low probability areas is a job that must be done - dogs draw that assignment frequently. The result is - dogs usually do not find the lost person. The other truth is that most lost persons find themselves, then they are found by accident by others, then by human searchers, then by other means including dogs. It the statistical truth of the matter.

With all that said, after spending 30 years doing search as a human responder, I finally had a dog that was trained to a level that could perform reliably. I was the most rewarding experience I have had doing SAR. It also ended my career when he died cause I just couldn't handle the inherent emotional load any longer without my partner by my side.

If you get involved, God bless you. If you do some soul searching and find that fostering assistance dogs is more up your alley, God bless you. If you decide that owning a dog is an immense responsibility that does not fit your lifestyle and therefore forego getting a dog, God bless you.

And, by the way, for looking before you leap, God bless you.

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

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And, by the way, for looking before you leap, God bless you.


You are so sweet for such a long, informative post, thank you so much. And to all those who've pm'ed me, thank you too. Lots of great information and guidance, sources and links. Rock on, y'all.

BTW, the only time I've ever lept before I looked was in skydiving...that first jump, I couldn't look out the plane. I could only go. B| So I went.

ALW. In answer to your questions, I have considered all the ramifications of a SAR dog, the loss that a dog creates when your partner dies...all the drawbacks (time, space, energy, and emotion...). Like I said, I'm not in a place where I can move into this, so doing homework and making the correct assessment of me, my abilities, my talents, and my expectations are important. And that's what I'm doing.

I know it's not glamorous. The good news is that I am not glamorous, either. LOL. I have volunteered on a few Search events, and sadly those people were not found. I've had the blessed opportunities to watch dogs work, and to see the incredible bond and trust between the dog and their handler...and yes, when you say you're trusting lives to the dog, you're right. Not simply mine, but the lost person, and all the others on the search as well.

Newfies are my favorite dog - and so are golden retrievers. Both dogs have limits, and physical issues to be dealt with (i.e. dysplasia, bloat, et cetera) that aren't easy to overcome, but I'm going to take my time, when it's time, in selecting the right pup. Since I'm not showing, I'm not worried about pedigree and breed conformation...rather, personality and behavior is what I am curious about. And I also know that it's a lifetime commitment; if the dog doesn't work out in training, though, I've still got a wonderful dog...and as an animal lover, I can't imagine my life without canine and feline companions. So it's all good - a dog able to do SAR is icing, you know?

I'm willing to make the commitment to do the research (starting here - this place is a great resource!!), and from the resource make my determination when the time is right. It will be a while before I have a yard, so there's no need to jump in tomorrow. But it's time to start investigating it thoroughly...

Thanks for all the pms and help and honest responses...I do appreciate them.

Ciels-
Michele


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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I think the hardest thing with finding a SARs dog is they can test great for everything as a puppy but as they get older just not have what it takes. That would be our boy, tested great for SARs and Schutzhund, but doesn't have what it takes to go all the way, which is why he ended up in a rescue.

On the other hand we have started working on tracking and he is doing really well, but I know he wouldn't do well in a competition or out in the field. Of course while his ball drive sucks his plastic bottle drive is really good so we have had to improvise a bit (anyone who has trained high drive dogs knows what I'm talking about). :P:D
Fly it like you stole it!

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I think the hardest thing with finding a SARs dog is they can test great for everything as a puppy but as they get older just not have what it takes. That would be our boy, tested great for SARs and Schutzhund, but doesn't have what it takes to go all the way, which is why he ended up in a rescue.


That's a concern, indeed, but still, even if the pup couldn't go all the way, I'd have a friend and companion for life.

The issue with Newfie rescue, though, is that they get so big, and can be so rowdy as babies that they go to the rescue because some family didn't quite know what to do with them. From what I've heard/read (and granted, I haven't done much of that), some rescue newfs do have what it takes to go all the way - but they were family terrors because the family wanted a big, docile, sweet doggie...and didn't know how to train (or didn't have the time required to train) a 160+ lb dog (which was a destructive 40 pound pup...)

Dunno the answer, but I'm willing to research and, once educated, am willing to take the chance. Your malinut (malinois, but they are referenced as 'nuts'...LOL!) is a breed I have considered, but am not sure about. They are damned cute, though...damned cute!

Thanks for the caution, though. Appreciate it!

Ciels-
Michele


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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A friend in grad school (who I have long since lost touch with) had a springer spaniel who was quite a gifted SAR dog. That's about all I know about the topic, I'm afraid. :D
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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On the other hand we have started working on tracking and he is doing really well,

Sort of off topic but on topic what is the the best method to teaching tracking to a dog... (I'd like to teach Karma... not necessarily for SAR but to give her another job... B|) and I'm curious if there are any good websites/books that break down the process well?
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

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[reply . . . what is the the best method to teaching tracking to a dog... (I'd like to teach Karma... not necessarily for SAR but to give her another job... B|) and I'm curious if there are any good websites/books that break down the process well?



The best I've found is Scent & the Scenting Dog
by William G. Syrotuck

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Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure.

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This is the book that was recommended to me by a schutzhund trainer, the first part of the book is on tracking. Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods

Also the reason I started working on this with Sherpa was just to keep him busy, Michelle is right Malinois are nuts and he is the king of them....actually he is fairly calm for a working lines Mal.

Michelle, Sherpa has been the most incredible dog I have ever owned, he is so much fun, training him has been so rewarding, and now that he is getting older he is becoming the coolest dog ever. Heck last weekend at Derek's adventure race by the end of the day everyone knew him. He was that happy dog that bounced in the air next to me rather than walk like a normal dog, on the sweet side he was also known as that really cool dog that didn't mind kids hanging on him all day. Don't get me wrong it has taken A LOT of work and training to get him to where he is today and honestly I wouldn't recommend a Mal to anyone, because he needs a ton of exercise, if he doesn't get 30 minutes of training a day or doing some kind of work (I've gotten pretty creative with jobs) that works his brain he is a basket case that starts to invent new things to do.:S I've yet to like his ideas, for some reason they usually involve stealing everything he can get his mouth on and taking it into the backyard.
Fly it like you stole it!

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Michele,

Well, since my name has come up in two posts I guess I will throw in my two cents worth. The good news is that you could not live in a better place to get into SAR. California has a gold mine of SAR resources including sheriff/law enforcement, FEMA USAR(8 teams) and volunteer.

Because SAR is both diversified and specialized I would recommend that you contact and visit different teams so that you can decide which discipline that you would like to start with. All will generally require two types of certification. The first is for you as a SAR technician and the other is for the use as a canine team. The later is a team certification specific to a handler and a dog. If you want to certify multiple dogs you have to test with each one.

There are a variety of disciplines that canines are used in both scent (tracking) and non-scent applications. All require specific training and can take anywhere from a year to two or more to certify in. Additionally some disciplines such as USAR (Urban Search and Rescue) require recertification every two years. As to what are the best training methods…there is no one best. You get the best training by having consistency and multiple training resources. The best FEMA USAR teams have multimillion dollar training facilities.

Certification requirements for the individual vary as much as the do for the canine teams. Some USAR teams require that all of their handlers be paramedic/firefighters with technical rescue training and three to five years experience. A volunteer team that searches for missing persons may only require NASAR SARTECH III, communications training and first aid to be an active responder.

Being a good canine handler is a major life commitment. It is doing tons of research to find the best possible dog for the discipline and training several times a week for as long as you are using the dog for search. The dogs that are the best at it are dogs that want to work. It is their reward. It is possible to train a single dog in multiple disciplines such as USAR and wilderness but remember it is also twice the training. In USAR you can go 10 years and never be called. Local teams that look for missing persons tend to be call more often. Where I am at we do about 25 searches a year for missing person of which about half are what we call evasive searches such as runaways.

Make no misunderstanding about it; if you are going to be good at SAR you will work hard. It is some of the most dangerous and demanding work that you can do. It is also some of the most rewarding. I have listed some resources below to give you some guidance. I wish you all of the best in your endeavor.

Mike & Cara

CARDA: http://www.carda.org/

NASAR: http://nasar.org/nasar/

FEMA USAR: http://www.usar.org/teams.html

California Office of Emergency Management for SAR: http://www.oes.ca.gov/Operational/OESHome.nsf/0/A3F586FD13D795C788256B7B0029BBFF?OpenDocument

World wide K-9 SAR information: http://www.the911site.com/911k/sar_50.htm

Best FEMA USAR K-9 information: http://www.disasterdog.org/
Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

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