SpeedRacer 1 #1 December 31, 2004 feeling philosophical here. It's pretty clear that many major religions say that forgiveness is an important thing to do. Some say it is crucial for your own salvation that you forgive others. some also say if you hold onto a grudge you're really just hurting yourself. But you get a lot of other messages from the world telling you otherwise. Some people instinctively feel that if you forgive someone for doing something really immoral, then it means you're not being strong. You're not standing up for yourself or for your moral principles if you forgive someone when they violate them. Suppose someone does something bad , but later realizes it and apologizes & tries to make amends. Some people mistakenly believe that if you forgive them, what you're saying is that it is OK that they did what they did, and that you've decided that their sin (or whatever you wanna call it) was not a sin after all. That is incorrect. Whe you forgive someone what you are saying is that you will no longer harbor ill will against that person for their sin. From here on out you're gonna wipe the slate clean. Forgiveness is at LEAST as important to the forgiver as the forgiv-ee. I've seen so many people live with overwhelming tension & bitterness because they think they're saving something valuable by refusing to forgive. I think forgiveness is so important that it should be very deliberately studied and practiced as much as any other important skill or virtue. There's a lot of links out there if you just google "forgiveness", some of them religious, some not. Anyway its something to reflect on here at the end of the year. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #2 December 31, 2004 Nope......If someone burns me. It's over. If it was really bad......it may take the rest of my life but sooner or later.....They'll get whats coming to them. It is however imprtant not to let it eat you. It will if you undertake this in the wrong way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #3 December 31, 2004 It depends on what you mean by "forgive", what the particular offense was, and my relationship with the person who committed it. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #4 December 31, 2004 There are a couple of things that have happened to me that I dont think I will EVER forgive the person who did them to me, mostly because I dont think they will ever ask for forgiveness... Flip side of that being that if those persons did come to me and really sincerly ask for forgiveness, I would forgive them of those things, but I would have to really feel that they mean it and feel bad for what they had done... Burn me again though, and that's it... FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #5 December 31, 2004 QuoteSuppose someone does something bad , but later realizes it and apologizes & tries to make amends. Some people mistakenly believe that if you forgive them, what you're saying is that it is OK that they did what they did, and that you've decided that their sin (or whatever you wanna call it) was not a sin after all. That is incorrect. Whe you forgive someone what you are saying is that you will no longer harbor ill will against that person for their sin. From here on out you're gonna wipe the slate clean. Forgiveness is at LEAST as important to the forgiver as the forgiv-ee. I've seen so many people live with overwhelming tension & bitterness because they think they're saving something valuable by refusing to forgive. I TOTALLY agree with you. It's just not worth it to hold onto bitterness or resentment from past hurts. By not forgiving, you are only hurting yourself, the other person and anyone that gets caught in the ugliness between you two. When you can make amends, it's like a burden is lifted off your shoulders. You can set your fears and past pain free to leave forever. I truly believe that most people, in general, are loving and good deep down. If you treat someone with respect, then that person will most likely want to do the same back. Of course, this is not always true, but it does seem to work for the most part, I think. Most of us crave to love and to be loved. Many times, we cannot see that because the person is hurting inside and manifests the pain by hurting others. It can be very difficult to look past something like that. I don't usually feel able to deal with those types of situations. I'm a healthy person, and I love people who love me back. Yet, I do feel that it's best to forgive everyone for wrong-doings and not to hold on to pain. The only thing that I would add is that you should forgive, but never forget. What I mean is not to necessarily treat that person like an enemy, yet to keep in mind that people have flaws and may fall into old behavior. True trust is something that must be earned. It's best to be somewhat realistic in this world. Not everyone is looking out for your best interests...only you are. Don't give people the opportunity to need to be forgiven. Take action prior. Be true to yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #6 December 31, 2004 QuoteIt's best to be somewhat realistic in this world. Not everyone is looking out for your best interests..."Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16). Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hooked 0 #7 December 31, 2004 Forgive? Probably, but it really depends on the reason or what transpired to reach the point of asking for forgiveness. I think I probably could forgive if honestly asked for forgiveness, but.....you can never forget. At least I wouldn't forget. J -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #8 December 31, 2004 I think I sometimes forgive too easily and I wind up getting bit by the same dog twice. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #9 December 31, 2004 QuoteI think I sometimes forgive too easily and I wind up getting bit by the same dog twice. Chris *sigh* Or three, or four, or...... I try to forgive. Sometimes, I end up "holding on to grudges until they die of old age, then have them stuffed and mounted", to quote one of my favorite authors. Who knows where THAT quote comes from?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #10 December 31, 2004 I don't know if I'd call it forgiveness, but I don't hold grudges. I've found that the energy it takes to hold a grudge usually ends up hurting me more than the "target" of the grudge. Depending on what the person did and how they make amends (or don't) I may need to cut that person out of my life and they may never mean the same to me again, but my life goes on without the negative energy it takes to continue being angry with them."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cocheese 0 #11 December 31, 2004 Call me jaded , but i've learned... and keep forgetting that : You have a right to remain silent. EVERYTHING you say (and do) to a woman can and will be used against you in a court of love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jonstark 8 #12 December 31, 2004 Got to... Life's too important to take seriously! jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #13 December 31, 2004 well, a big part of forgiveness, from my perspective, is not allowing the person or event to affect you or your mental well being. It's about moving on and getting over it. Forgiving helps get rid of the anger and hurt, so you can think about the situation rationally. Forgetting...now that is another matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gmanpilot 0 #14 December 31, 2004 GRACE is my favorite word, for several reasons. I live and work in a world where I am called upon to provide an ungraceful, calculated, and precise response to the worst that humankind has to offer. So when I have the rare opportunity to extend a measure of grace to someone who deserves it (or not), I am emboldened in the process._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RkyMtnHigh 0 #15 December 31, 2004 Absolutely! I've been hurt, burned, and violated in the worst ways...and over time, still forgive that person not necessarily the act/behavior. Doesn't mean that I forget or that I will be buddies with the person,but forgiveness frees me from being held back so I can move forward. _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 236 #16 January 1, 2005 "Forgive and remember." Holding a grudge and looking for payback has nothing to recommend it. OTOH, if someone has demonstrated a propensity for unacceptable behavior, that is the reality. To expect them to be different is unrealistic. There are people I like, people I don't like, and those for whom I have no opinion one way or another. Beyond being polite, I can't see any reason to treat people uniformly. I try to spend time around people I like, and avoid people I don't like. You can forgive someone for what they have done, not for what they are. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kbone 0 #17 January 1, 2005 I find that most of my grudges are based on how people have treated me in the past. It usually takes more than a single incident to trigger my reaction to cut a person or group of people out of my life. I don't want to be around people that make me feel low, so I avoid them. If that is a grudge, what is so bad about that? I just don't have the patience to put up with them anymore, does that make me a bad person? When a person repeatadly crosses the line, you owe it to yourself to protect your dignity and your sense of self worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #18 January 1, 2005 forgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone..skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ECVZZ 0 #19 January 1, 2005 Quoteforgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. Ditto... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hooked 0 #20 January 1, 2005 Quoteforgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. Those are exactly my feelings. J -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #21 January 2, 2005 Speedy, great thread. I've been thinking about this topic for a while. QuoteI think forgiveness is so important that it should be very deliberately studied and practiced as much as any other important skill or virtue. I would also add that forgiving yourself, when you make an error, is critical as well. And asking for forgiveness - acknowledging a mistake and asking for pardon - is also critical. I don't think that receiving forgiveness from someone you've hurt is equally as critical, though. If you've "manned up" and asked for forgiveness (especially if the hurt was not deliberate), and that person is unable to find compassion and understanding and then continues to carry the grudge, it becomes their bitterness, their grudge. And it's their life that becomes affected. Forgiving oneself is important, too. If we can't fogive ourselves for doing something wrong, then we can't really move on from that place, either. Forgiveness does not mean acceptance, nor does it mean forgetfulness. It simply means forgiveness. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #22 January 2, 2005 I do my best to. Because I understand that i'm more human than others. That means, I fuck up about twice as much as the normal man. I have to admit though,, that there are some, that will never be forgiven. For those, i generally, turn and walk away... so in some ways, i forgive them by leaving them alone..If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #23 January 2, 2005 i also believe that "forgiveness" is mentally medical important to healing one-self, of the pain caused for whatever reason. You have to cure your own pain...If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Unstable 9 #24 January 2, 2005 Quote forgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. *********************************** Well said - That is what I need to learn!! I forgive & forget, and that doesn't work out so well......=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #25 January 2, 2005 Quotesome things once done, cannot be undone. but that does not mean i'd put energy into maintaining a 'grudge'. It does mean there are instances where i'd have no qualms about letting someone fall once they 'break faith', or even giving them a good trip when the opportunity presents.... without the force of karma nothing is ever learned... karma chooses its own agents, but every now and then, you are given the opportunity to observe it's effect... and that is a lesson of another sort....honest mistakes can be forgotten... intentional betrayal cannot...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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SpeedRacer 1 #6 December 31, 2004 QuoteIt's best to be somewhat realistic in this world. Not everyone is looking out for your best interests..."Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16). Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hooked 0 #7 December 31, 2004 Forgive? Probably, but it really depends on the reason or what transpired to reach the point of asking for forgiveness. I think I probably could forgive if honestly asked for forgiveness, but.....you can never forget. At least I wouldn't forget. J -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #8 December 31, 2004 I think I sometimes forgive too easily and I wind up getting bit by the same dog twice. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 December 31, 2004 QuoteI think I sometimes forgive too easily and I wind up getting bit by the same dog twice. Chris *sigh* Or three, or four, or...... I try to forgive. Sometimes, I end up "holding on to grudges until they die of old age, then have them stuffed and mounted", to quote one of my favorite authors. Who knows where THAT quote comes from?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #10 December 31, 2004 I don't know if I'd call it forgiveness, but I don't hold grudges. I've found that the energy it takes to hold a grudge usually ends up hurting me more than the "target" of the grudge. Depending on what the person did and how they make amends (or don't) I may need to cut that person out of my life and they may never mean the same to me again, but my life goes on without the negative energy it takes to continue being angry with them."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cocheese 0 #11 December 31, 2004 Call me jaded , but i've learned... and keep forgetting that : You have a right to remain silent. EVERYTHING you say (and do) to a woman can and will be used against you in a court of love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #12 December 31, 2004 Got to... Life's too important to take seriously! jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #13 December 31, 2004 well, a big part of forgiveness, from my perspective, is not allowing the person or event to affect you or your mental well being. It's about moving on and getting over it. Forgiving helps get rid of the anger and hurt, so you can think about the situation rationally. Forgetting...now that is another matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #14 December 31, 2004 GRACE is my favorite word, for several reasons. I live and work in a world where I am called upon to provide an ungraceful, calculated, and precise response to the worst that humankind has to offer. So when I have the rare opportunity to extend a measure of grace to someone who deserves it (or not), I am emboldened in the process._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #15 December 31, 2004 Absolutely! I've been hurt, burned, and violated in the worst ways...and over time, still forgive that person not necessarily the act/behavior. Doesn't mean that I forget or that I will be buddies with the person,but forgiveness frees me from being held back so I can move forward. _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #16 January 1, 2005 "Forgive and remember." Holding a grudge and looking for payback has nothing to recommend it. OTOH, if someone has demonstrated a propensity for unacceptable behavior, that is the reality. To expect them to be different is unrealistic. There are people I like, people I don't like, and those for whom I have no opinion one way or another. Beyond being polite, I can't see any reason to treat people uniformly. I try to spend time around people I like, and avoid people I don't like. You can forgive someone for what they have done, not for what they are. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kbone 0 #17 January 1, 2005 I find that most of my grudges are based on how people have treated me in the past. It usually takes more than a single incident to trigger my reaction to cut a person or group of people out of my life. I don't want to be around people that make me feel low, so I avoid them. If that is a grudge, what is so bad about that? I just don't have the patience to put up with them anymore, does that make me a bad person? When a person repeatadly crosses the line, you owe it to yourself to protect your dignity and your sense of self worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #18 January 1, 2005 forgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone..skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ECVZZ 0 #19 January 1, 2005 Quoteforgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. Ditto... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hooked 0 #20 January 1, 2005 Quoteforgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. Those are exactly my feelings. J -------------------------------------- Sometimes we're just being Humans.....But we're always Human Beings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #21 January 2, 2005 Speedy, great thread. I've been thinking about this topic for a while. QuoteI think forgiveness is so important that it should be very deliberately studied and practiced as much as any other important skill or virtue. I would also add that forgiving yourself, when you make an error, is critical as well. And asking for forgiveness - acknowledging a mistake and asking for pardon - is also critical. I don't think that receiving forgiveness from someone you've hurt is equally as critical, though. If you've "manned up" and asked for forgiveness (especially if the hurt was not deliberate), and that person is unable to find compassion and understanding and then continues to carry the grudge, it becomes their bitterness, their grudge. And it's their life that becomes affected. Forgiving oneself is important, too. If we can't fogive ourselves for doing something wrong, then we can't really move on from that place, either. Forgiveness does not mean acceptance, nor does it mean forgetfulness. It simply means forgiveness. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luckky 0 #22 January 2, 2005 I do my best to. Because I understand that i'm more human than others. That means, I fuck up about twice as much as the normal man. I have to admit though,, that there are some, that will never be forgiven. For those, i generally, turn and walk away... so in some ways, i forgive them by leaving them alone..If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luckky 0 #23 January 2, 2005 i also believe that "forgiveness" is mentally medical important to healing one-self, of the pain caused for whatever reason. You have to cure your own pain...If there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #24 January 2, 2005 Quote forgive, yes... forget,,NO! Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, I'm gone.. *********************************** Well said - That is what I need to learn!! I forgive & forget, and that doesn't work out so well......=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #25 January 2, 2005 Quotesome things once done, cannot be undone. but that does not mean i'd put energy into maintaining a 'grudge'. It does mean there are instances where i'd have no qualms about letting someone fall once they 'break faith', or even giving them a good trip when the opportunity presents.... without the force of karma nothing is ever learned... karma chooses its own agents, but every now and then, you are given the opportunity to observe it's effect... and that is a lesson of another sort....honest mistakes can be forgotten... intentional betrayal cannot...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
