beginning stages of down sizing

[GaryRay 0]

so im looking at the classified section on here to see what my options are once i am ready to buy my own rig. seems like the smallest size anyone is selling is a 190, to me that seems very small since ive been jumping 280 and 260, it doesnt seem like in the next 13jumps or so i will down size that much, should my downsizing take less time. ive only downsized once from a 280 to a 260 and that took me like 6 jumps. i weigh about 190lbs on average so to buy one of those 190sq ft. canopies i would be wing loading about 1:1 which seems like a lot. so my question is should i be downsizing faster than i am, ive done 6 jumps since my last down size, should i try again next jump i do?

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[bigway 4]

I cant believe instructors do n to sit down each student and give a little lecture on this before signing you off.

No offence to you, just seems more instructors should be doing this.

Sounds like a 190 would be a pretty good size for you to buy. If you want to stay cautious though get yourself a 200-210 Make sure they are ZP canopies though as an old F1--1 190 will be like a 170 zp.


My suggestion is demo 210 for a few jumps and think about buying a 190.

A 190 210 are pretty big cvanopies but they may also seem small to you, however these are the canopies most will go to once off AFF unless of course you were extremley light that you may consider a 170 or 150 as a first canopy that you actually purchase.

In your case a 190 sounds about right but do demo a 210 or even 220 for a few jumps to make sure that you will be okay on a 190.

EVEN MORE SERIOUS ADVICE.. go and ask someone that knows you such as an instructor as we here can only guess what is right for you.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[seldon 0]

Gary, I can tell you my experience if it helps you out. I weigh 190 lbs too and I've been jumping a Navigator 260 from my AFF to my 19th jump. Then I downsized to 240 and made ten jumps on it. At 29th jump I begin to jump a Nav. 220. Now I got 37 jumps and I expect I will downsize to a Nav 200 in a few jumps more.

It's difficult to give advice about downsize on Internet. Better get it from your DZ instructors if they see your landings. It's not only a weigh matter. IMHO flare skill and personal speed level confort it's more important. I downsize only one size (20 sq.ft. less) when I land stand-up (or at least non-stand-up but slow and secure) 5 times in a row aprox. and I get a no-wind stand up landing. I think this method it's good for me and always downsize after instructors agree with it.

My advice: don´t downsize from 260 to 210 or 190. Don´t skip any step! And get advice from the instructors or experienced people that know your landing skills.

I've just bought my first rig. It's a Silhouette 190, a forgiveness canopy, and I expect to jump it the next 100 or 200 jumps.

Good jumps and better landings, mate

PD: Sorry for my english. I hope there's no misunderstandings.

[Scoop 0]

I went straight from a 288 Manta to a 210 Silhouette. The first few jumps were a bit tense to say the least. Its not a fast canopy being so damn big but the difference was still dramatic to what I was used to. I'd recommend maybe hiring some club kit of a size inbetween first, paticularly if your going even furthur down to a 190.

Also if you weigh 190lbs and jump a 190 sq ft your wingloading will be greater than 1:1 as the kit is heavy. My rig weighs 14KG (30.1 lbs)

[DougH 270]

Quote

so im looking at the classified section on here to see what my options are once i am ready to buy my own rig. seems like the smallest size anyone is selling is a 190, to me that seems very small since ive been jumping 280 and 260, it doesnt seem like in the next 13jumps or so i will down size that much, should my downsizing take less time. ive only downsized once from a 280 to a 260 and that took me like 6 jumps. i weigh about 190lbs on average so to buy one of those 190sq ft. canopies i would be wing loading about 1:1 which seems like a lot. so my question is should i be downsizing faster than i am, ive done 6 jumps since my last down size, should i try again next jump i do?

Are you 190 with gear, or with out?

Wait on the gear. Try to rent some gear from the dz that you can use to step down to smaller sizes. Get your instructors involved!! You may find that 1:1 is too much to handle, or you may find it very comfortable and you may be upset if you bought a 210 or 220 instead.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[bigway 4]

don´t downsize from 260 to 210 or 190. Don´t skip any step! And get advice from the instructors or experienced people that know your landing skills.

I would not call going from a 260 to a 210 missing any steps.

A 210/220 should be the next step at his sort of wingloading.

You would be very hard to find any canopies in between a 260 AFF rig and a 220 sports rental at most dropzones.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[mnskydiver688 0]

I went from student gear (260 sq ft) after getting licensed to a PD210 for roughly 15 jumps then bought my own gear with a sabre1 170. I have been very happy with my choice. Get advice from instructors at your DZ who have seen your landings. Demo different canopies also. See what you like and get a feel for how the flare is much different on a 190 zp / 170zp than say student gear.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

A 210/220 should be the next step at his sort of wingloading.

You would be very hard to find any canopies in between a 260 AFF rig and a 220 sports rental at most dropzones.

Yes, it can be difficult, though some DZs do carry the 230, which is the high end typically available with PD. It's even harder to find canopies/rigs in this size in the used market. A slightly bigger problem for me at 215lbs than for him, but a 190 is likely a 1.15 loading, a bit high for a student.

[sagan 0]

Just a thought (and again this is ironic as I'm a very low jump # jumper) but most of the advice in this thread has been of similar jumpers to myself (50-150 jumps).

While I don't want to discredit anyone and I think the opinion is valuable (just like I'd say my own opinion which I'll give is "valuable" to some extent because we are all "in the same boat" experience wise), it's probably best to go talk to your instructors (which has been mentioned a few times). One thing I was taught in AFF was: listen to everyone, but anyone under <1000 jumps, go verify with someone with 1000+ jumps/instructor/rigger.

That said, I'm of a similar weight to you. My student progression was 300 down to 210 by the time I did my 25th jump. (300, 260, 235 until 25th jump, on my check jump my instructor cleared me for the 210 as a "graduation present") This was in an area with lots of obstacles, turbulence, etc. and so this progression was considered "aggressive" but cleared by my instructors as I said. Since then I've had the opportunity to jump a variety of canopy models in the 190 to 210 range. One thing I noticed right away is that to me regardless of canopy model wingloading a 210 around 1.1 to 1.15 and then moving to a 190 was a BIG difference, especially in terms of altitude loss in turns. The other thing was that different models fly quite a bit different. I was also surprised that the models I thought I wouldn't like ended up flying the best in some cases.

The other things that come to mind in terms of lessons:
* It doesn't make sense to have a canopy you can only land into a 8mph wind. If you can't downwind it at 8mph into someone's backyard, it's probably too aggressive.
* Canopy models vary (a lot in some cases)
* What's your real exit weight? You say you weigh 190, but that's not your exit weight. Step on a scale all suited up, that's your exit weight (note this can change quite a bit too, in the last year my lowest exit weight has been 205 and the highest has been 230)
* How many jumps do you have? Remember that most manufacturers will tell you to do about 10 jumps just to get used to a canopy, if you have say <50 jumps total, it would probably be "weird" to have downsized 8 times.
* Instead of buying a main right away, get some canopy coaching from a recognized instructor in that area. They will not only teach you a crap load but they will probably be very good at judging where your skill level, exit weight, and jumping habits put you.
* What kind of jumping are you planning on doing? i.e. I've been doing a lot of RW with bigger groups (for me) and currently at the end of jumps I have no desire to deal with an exciting canopy ride that's right at the edge of my skill level since my concentration is on RW skills. (This incidentally is quite funny on big ways where you'll get people that have to put on weight vests that are already jumping highly loaded canopies -- as a result "some" big ways are events for everyone else at the DZ watching 50 people simultaneously eat dirt on landing.)

Now if you read all the way down here, here's the only advice to take from me -- forget everything you read in terms of regarding it as advice and talk to your instructors. Take my written words here as friendly jumper to jumper dialog only.

-Patrick

[KathleenL 0]

Hi Gary,

Here is my advice. Don't listen to any of us here. The most important thing that you need to know about any canopy is how to fly it. You do not need any more speed at all if you don't have the skills to fly what you have now. I highly recomend that take the Scott Miller course thru Freedom of Flight. Scott is on the road now with the Skyfest Training Tour. I have taken his Essensials course and will take the advanced course soon. Learn all the flying skills that you can on the huge forgiving canopy that you have. If you take Scott's course, when you do downsized you will have the training and skill to (as Scott says) dial in your new canopy.

Believe me once you stall your canopy when you are at 4 grand and see the end cells touch and the entire canopy balls up into a big ball of crap and you recover from it (the way Scott teaches you) you will have the confidence you need to start to maybe think about downsizing.

Blue Skies,
Kathleen

[mnealtx 0]

Well said! I'd also recommend that he read Billvon's downsizing checklist and make sure he can do all of the items on the list, reliably and on demand.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706