What's Going ON??!!!

[wartload 0]

I need a reality check here, folks. The following is factual, and I'm dead serious about it all.

My dad just turned in his resignation from a state agency, effective the end of this month. At age 87, he is currently the oldest state employee in that state. Following a career as a military officer, he "retired" in the early 1960s. Since then, he's contributed a heck of a lot to that state and to society as a whole. For his privacy, I'm not going into details, but trust me--his contributions were pretty substantial.

It was undoubtedly time for him to retire, but he was still performing well at his job and he enjoyed the work that he has done for so long. Why did he retire, then?

Recently some people visited his office, escorted him away, and sequestered him alone for most of the day in a room in another building. Then they took all of his credentials from him, telling him that he was to go home on administrative leave and wait for a call from them. He took them literally, and spent the following week, mostly alone, sitting next to the telephone all day.

Why?

A young woman, not someone he supervised, filed a grievance against him. She stated that he'd made her feel "uncomfortable" on two occasions. The first time, she had her back turned to him and he tapped her on the shoulder to get her attention, in order to hand her some paperwork. The second time, she came in to work wearing her hair in a different style than usual. He told her that it looked very nice.

That's it. One of my siblings went with him to the meeting where they, after a week, finally presented the young woman's grievance to him and told him that they had to determine what to do about it. That was the "charge."

Although he could probably go through a lengthy appeals process and be reinstated, the shame of all this made him choose to resign, rather than go back into that sort of environment. Besides, he says that he doesn't understand what he did that was wrong. He thought that he was just being courteous.

How is it ok for them to humiliate him and treat him like a criminal because someone else felt "uncomfortable" that he complimented them and tapped them on the shoulder?

I just don't get it, folks. Who's making up the rules here, and where does one find a list of the latest changes? Sorry to vent like this, but I really need to know -- does this really make sense to anyone?

[guppie01 0]

Wow, seems harsh to me. The company that I work for has a zero tolerance policy, but I've never seen someone treated like that.... typically I've seen the direct manager/supervisor will first delicately advise the person, if that doesn't work then/and depending on the severity of the allegations it escalates.

Wow... Sorry. Hope your Dad enjoys his well deserved time off!!!!

g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[Scoop 0]

Isn't standard practice for the first instance in a grievance procedure to be informal action? I.E to be made aware of their actions in a discreet manner.

Even in the police the grievance advice is first step. Tell the person whos annoying/harrasing/bullying you to stop. If they don't know they are causing you any discomfort then why would they stop. 2nd step is aan informal chat from a superior and then it gets into the heavy stuff.

The scenario you present seems ridiculously heavy handed. Maybe if any serious actions results from it he could sue. This can't be in line with the agencies internal procedures, surely! Or I'd hope not

Hope it sorts itself out quick mate.

[wartload 0]

Thanks for the reply. One of my questions, though, is "zero tolerance" for what? For tapping someone on the shoulder? For saying something nice about someone else? These are hardly sexual acts, nor are they threatening.

Have we shifted into some sort of weird 1950s mindset where males need to walk with their heads lowered and eyes averted from women? Can certain people now say, "That old guy makes me feel uncomfortable," and that's cause for the "offending" male to be hauled away?

Thanks for your kind wishes for dad enjoying himself, but I predict he'll be dead before the end of the year. This has caused him to be depressed and has taken the joy away from his life. Being able to contribute to society in a meaningful way is largely what kept him going and alert for so long.

[Scoop 0]

Seems that way. Its the 'equal' world we now live in

[shropshire 0]

This is sickening. No wonder the world is in the state that it is if people arent allowed to be polite and curtious anymore. Shame on her and more shame on the company .

I hope that your dad is O.K and can somehow get over what this stupid, heartless woman has done to him.

He will, no doubt continue to be polite and she'll continue to be a spineless arse.

Regards,

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pincheck 0]

i think it just goes to show how warped our society has gotten with all the political correctness shit out there hope your dad gets over this as he has done nothing wrong

Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun

[guppie01 0]

lengthy, but this is the company policy where I work. I'm sure a same type of document exists for the company your dad worked for - and if the situation was handled outside of the policy, someone’s got some splainin to do....
HUGS to your Dad!


"
Under no circumstances shall sexual harassment be tolerated.

• Anyone who is subjected to sexual harassment must themselves clearly tell the perpetrator to cease in his/her conduct. This is often sufficient to ensure that it is not repeated.

• If the harassment continues, the injured party shall immediately report it to his/her immediate superior/supervisor, describing the nature, course and extent of the harassment and identifying the perpetrator.

• If it is not possible to address the issue with this person, there are coordination officers in the HR department to which to appeal. It is also possible to turn to the company medical officer or the health and safety officer.

• The manager consults with the coordination officer about the measures to take and how to proceed.

• The perpetrator is then contacted by the manager if he/she works in the same unit, or otherwise by the coordination officer. At this point:

- the perpetrator is informed about the perceived harassment
- the perpetrator is given an opportunity to explain him/herself and present his/her own version of events
- it is ascertained whether the perpetrator understands of what he/she is being accused
- it is ascertained whether the perpetrator understands the contents of the company’s policy and whether he/she is in contravention of that policy
- it is ascertained whether the event was deliberate or whether it occurred out of ignorance or thoughtlessness.

• The coordination officer gathers information about the event and makes an objective judgement about what occurred. If the harassment was the result of ignorance or thoughtlessness, no further action is normally needed. If the harassment is judged to be deliberate and in contravention of company policy, a caution is issued regarding the impropriety of the conduct with notification that any repetition can lead to dismissal. A copy is also sent to the employee’s union.

• Should the harassment continue in spite of the above, the company enters into talks with the employee’s union regarding dismissal measures.

• Any other action taken depends on the case in question. Cases of harassment shall always be dealt with promptly and discretely, paying the greatest possible respect to those involved. Sometimes it might be necessary to relocate the perpetrator. In the event of gross harassment, a police report should be considered. In such cases, the victim must always be informed first.

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[airtwardo 7]

I smell a rat...

That likely wasn't the issue...someone higher up having a relative that wanted your dad's job probably IS.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[ladyskydiver 0]

That's fucking ridiculous! That girl needs her fucking head examined.

There's a HUGE fucking difference between sexual harassment and being polite.

Hell...if I were your dad, I'd definitely fight it and tell them once I won to FUCK OFF!

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Lindercles 0]

Without having been there it's impossible to say exactly what happened, but when it comes to sexual harassment it's all about perception.

The difference between a tap and a rub may seem obvious, but the intricacies of physical interaction are often not agreed upon by all participants and can be easily misconstrued. These days it's just best not to touch anyone.

Likewise, the difference between a polite compliment and a slimy come on is a fine line. It's ok to notice someone's hair, but best not to make commentary on it unless you know the person very well.

And yes, making one person uncomfortable in any way is enough to get you disciplined in today's society.

[shropshire 0]

Then we're dooomed.


That's a sad indictment of our society, isn't it?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Brains 2]

Quote

Can certain people now say, "That old guy makes me feel uncomfortable," and that's cause for the "offending" male to be hauled away?

Unfortunately YES! Most companies are scared to death of a sexual harrassment suit. It seems that it is the victims word PERIOD! Usually the "offending person" doesn't even get a chance to tell their side.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[Lindercles 0]

It may be, but my post wasn't even meant as commentary. It's just a statement of fact.

[shropshire 0]

I realise, I wasn't having a go.. but we (collectively) should be doing something about it and not allowing this sort of mess to carry on.... it truely makes me sad.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[guppie01 0]

It is sad.... currently the office I work in has a very cool dynamic. There is a lot of fun banter and very open conversation. No-one is offended, and we all are adult about it. We have a new hire coming in next month that I don't feel is going to be comfortable with this. One person is going to make everyone else uncomfortable, but we have to cater to HER.

Lucky for me if things get too morgue`ish, I can move up the street to a different office.
g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[Scoop 0]

I'm glad I'm out the office and back in the workshop. Now there is a hell of alot of banter and piss taking that goes on there and we all have a good laugh. Shame more people can't do that

[meltdown 0]

Next time you touch me in freefall I'm calling the cops, you pervert.

[Lindercles 0]

"But officer, I can prove it was just a tap. We suck too much to dock long enough for a rub!"

[Icon134 0]

wow... that's just not cool...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[Rebecca 0]

I'm with you, something stinks.

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?

[wmw999 2,589]

The woman's perception is what it is. Who knows what skeletons lurk in her closet. But the way that your father's employer handled it is nothing short of appalling.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wartload 0]

Quote

The woman's perception is what it is. Who knows what skeletons lurk in her closet. But the way that your father's employer handled it is nothing short of appalling.

Wendy W.

I've tried hard to look at this thing from all angles, even hers.

Maybe she's so immersed in our Culture of Youth that the sight and presence of a very old person creeps her out.

Maybe the woman was abused by her grandfather, or something. If so, that's terrible, but isn't that the issue she should be dealing with?

I really suspect that this is, at the core, all about her issues--why does she have the power to make it about him?

The guy's 87. He's fragile, frail, and has trouble walking. He's almost a cartoon of the typical old guy. He wears his belt too high. He wears shirts that are out of style (probably got them on sale, and the old Depression mentality of his youth can't let him pass up a bargain). He's soft-spoken (maybe why she didn't hear him talking to her and he had to tap her on the shoulder).

I doubt that he's had any sexual urges for 15+ years--it's totally ridiculous for anyone to think he could have been hitting on her.

It seems that, in our institutional stampede to be viewed as politically correct in our behavior toward some people, we've totally abandoned the rights of others who are in less-favored groups.

It's interesting that all five of the supervisory and HR people (that my sister saw at the meeting where he was officially informed of the grievance) were female, but at least one was on his side. My sister said that the only one of that group who actually knew him, and that she had tears in her eyes during that meeting.

I'm sure that there are many people in his office, and on this forum, who are thinking, "God, that's a shame, but that's the world that we live in today!" I'm equally sure that there were people in Germany who had the same sort of thoughts when the National Socialists took control of that country.

This guy is a decorated veteran of WWII and Korea. It can be unquestionably documented that he saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives during his military and civilian career. How one person can cause his career and his dignity to come to a crashing end by claiming that he made her feel "uncomfortable" by a courteous compliment and a non-sexual touch is beyond me.

Is this the world that we are going to give to our sons?

Sorry, but this is making me crazy. The same thing could happen to any of us.

[wartload 0]

Quote

• Anyone who is subjected to sexual harassment must themselves clearly tell the perpetrator to cease in his/her conduct. This is often sufficient to ensure that it is not repeated.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this. One of the most vexing parts of all this is that the "victim" never told my dad that she felt uncomfortable. She went to the supervisor, instead (now, it turns out, she did that after he had disagreed with an evaluation that she did on a case they apparently both reviewed). It also appears that the supervisor and HR got themselves up to their necks in going after him before anyone bothered to ask her if she ever let him know that she felt uncomfortable. Maybe that's why it took them a week to actually sit down with him and formally tell him about the grievance.

Many aspects of our society really suck, you know?

[livendive 8]

My mom used to be a manager at her work. One of her employees took vacation for his wedding and honeymoon. He didn't come back the day he was expected to and extended his vacation by 2 days. During those two days, she joked with another employee "Hey, he's young and his new wife is gorgeous. It's not surprising he wants a couple extra days of 'honeymoon', if you know what I mean."

A third employee of her's overheard this and took it to HR. Even though the guy being talked about thought it was just a funny, harmless comment, as did the person being talked to, the person who was eavesdropping succeeded in getting my mom formally reprimanded for sexual harassment with a letter to her file guaranteeing dismissal if there was another complaint...this after 25+ years of service at that company.

That said, there seems to me to be a serious gender disparity in the whole thing. I've had women grab my ass at work, talk about my ass, enquire about my endowment or sexual techniques, etc. Rest assured I'd be fired if I ever returned fire. I currently work with an older woman who is very touchy-feely. She'll put a hand on my leg while talking to me in my office, frequently refers to me as "sweetheart" or "honey", and she almost always stands within my "personal space". Role-reverse us and I'm quite certain I'd be unemployed.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)