floridadiver81 0 #1 May 30, 2007 Firstly i did a thread search and could find what im looking for. I have a choice to make and i would like others opinions. Im buying my first canopy relatively soon...and i have it narrowed down to a PD 230...one is 7 cell and the other is 9 cell. Being a beginner and that is it my first canopy what would ya'll recommend i get. There is only a 25 dollar differance in the price between them and they both have about the same number of jumps. I only have three aff jumps so far and i made it back to the student landing area without any problems...with radio the first and solo on levels 2 and three. I havent stood up a landning yet but that is flaring issues.which im working on now. So which one would you reccommend to someone newly off of student status? Im not looking for performance..im looking for safety."Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #2 May 30, 2007 PD doesn't make a 230 sq ft 7 cell; I suspect you meant PD-235. If it was me I'd go for the 9 cell for the better glide. But if you are more into accuracy, the 7 cell will give you more ability to do a steep approach. Both will work. >I only have three aff jumps so far I think I'd wait until you get off AFF and make a few jumps on rental rigs before committing to one of the above mains. The people you jump with will have some good advice for you then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floridadiver81 0 #3 May 30, 2007 Thanks for your reply bill. I was hoping you would see this thread. I talked to my dzo last saturday about this and he said i would be fine on a 230 but at the time i was looking at the 9 cell. then i found the 7 cell for slightly cheaper so i decided to post here for opinions..and i highly value yours. the dzo was my main instructor on my level three so he knows what i can do as far as landing for my level on experience...or lack thereof..lol. I know a lot of people wait to buy a main until they downsize...but honestly..im in no hurry to downsize at all. I dont have a problem with flying a big canopy for awhile..as im not trying to get into swooping or anything high performance for a LONG time.....hence the reason why im not in a hurry to downsize."Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildfan75 1 #4 May 30, 2007 <-----raises her hand. Wouldn't/couldn't the PD 230 7 cell be a reserve? IDK, not trying to troll, it's a serious questions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 May 30, 2007 I don't think either a 9 cell or a 7 cell are great canopies. Both the PD 9 and PD 7 cell are made from a very old type of fabric that doesn't age very well. These canopies had practical lifespans of roughly a hundred jumps. Most PD 9 and 7 cells on the market have far more than 100 jumps on them, and are far beyond their practical lifespan. If you do insist on buying a PD 9 or 7 cell parachute, make sure to have it inspected by an independent rigger. Don't trust the word of the guy trying to sell it to you. Most PD 9 and 7 cell canopies should be used as car covers. Also, I'll echo what Bill said. I never recommend anyone buys a canopy before they get their 'A' license. Your choice in canopy will change radically over the next 20 jumps. Don't rush it. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 May 30, 2007 F111 fabric does not show as having high poresity until it gets upwards of 500-700 jumps or even more, far beyond the 100 that you say it is good for.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #7 May 30, 2007 QuoteBoth the PD 9 and PD 7 cell are made from a very old type of fabric that doesn't age very well. These canopies had practical lifespans of roughly a hundred jumps. 100 jumps? Come on... I have a '96 PD 9-cell. No clue how many jumps are on it, but it's in the hundreds (I've put ~150 on it myself and am at least the 3rd owner). Right now the brake lines are horribly short, allowing it to stall really easily (holding 3/4 brakes for a few seconds will get a stall started). Just haven't bothered to get them lengthened because I jump it so little. But even with its age and brake lines, it flies just fine. Lands OK, just a little scary knowing it's so close to a stall. But I jumped it for a few months over the winter and stood up all but one landing. Might have had a better flare when brand new, but to say it's practically beyond it's lifespan is just not true. After a quick visit to a rigger, it'd be a fine canopy for a (light) newbie. Not sure it's the best choice though... opens hard, tricky to land well, no resale value. But if it's cheap and money is a factor, it works. I think I got mine for $400 or so. I like my Sabre2 a lot more, but it was $1100 (used). Big price difference for soft openings and a powerful flare. But I'd definitely wait to buy anything till you get an A license, then pick the size you want, find a container and reserve, then demo mains. Impossible for anyone to know which you'll like more, and by then you may not want a PD F111 canopy at all. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 May 30, 2007 I stand corrected on the 100 jump thing. PD says there's noticeable wear after 20-30 jumps, and serious degradation by "several hundred". http://www.performancedesigns.com/faq.asp#15. I suspect there are very few out there that do not fit this criteria. Unless the original poster has found one in pristine condition, a used Triathlon, Spectre, Hornet, Safire, Saber 2, Sillouette, or even a ZP Manta is probably a better choice. There are many affordable ones in good shape for people on a low budget. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnskydiver688 0 #9 May 30, 2007 I jumped a 9-cell PD 210 for a while and it had a tendency to have hard openings. The flare was fine but don't expect to do a progressive flare with it. The nice thing was it practically put itself in the bag when packing. Like others have said wait until you get licensed and then look at canopies. Borrow rigs, rent rigs, whatever you have to do till then. Good luck.Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #10 May 30, 2007 There may be wear, but they last a lot longer than that. I have a PD 150 - loaded at about 1.1 to one - that actually surfs nice on no-wind days! It lands beautifully (Brian Germain even commented on that in the canopy control course he had here). I know I'm at minimum the 3rd owner and I've put at least 200 jumps on it. Its not even beginning to show a problem with flare... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floridadiver81 0 #11 May 30, 2007 Quote But I'd definitely wait to buy anything till you get an A license, then pick the size you want, find a container and reserve, then demo mains. Impossible for anyone to know which you'll like more, and by then you may not want a PD F111 canopy at all. Dave I already have a complete rig with the exception of a main canopy. Judging by all the posts thus far in this thread maybe i should broaden my horizons as far as manufacturer."Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbry 0 #12 May 30, 2007 Did ya talk to him??????????????????/-------------------------------------------------- Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!! D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #13 May 30, 2007 Oh, if you've got a rig, then you can answer your own questions whenever you're ready to jump either canopy. Try before you buy! ...unless they're not available locally. PD and most other manufacturers have demo programs for their current canopies. $30 or so to use the canopy all you want for 2 weeks. If you're considering a beat up old canopy, definitely give some nice new canopies a try too, for comparison. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floridadiver81 0 #14 May 30, 2007 Thank you Dave. I always wondered how the demoing process worked. I wasnt aware it was that cheap...i expected like half of the canopy worth down to demo...but then again i never asked..so now i know. Thanks again!"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #15 May 31, 2007 As I said in My pm, consider the canopy size. I get a feeling that you are saying 230 because you here of all these people rushing to small canopies in the incidents section etc. I dont know your wingloading on a 230 but student AFF canopies are not much bigger. Someone with more knowledge here might want to point out that depending on wing loading with a canopy this size you may be flying backwards under the slightest wind and may find being on the same restrictions as a AFF student is. I just think you may be being a bit too conservative and maybe someone here can help you more with this. However, i may be very wrong and this canopy is poerfect for your weight/size. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #16 May 31, 2007 His wingloading on a 230 is in his profile. 1.07 is already starting to lean toward the high side for canopies like those. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #17 May 31, 2007 YEah... I remember my mavric... lol That thing use to love getting to the ground Haha. Was like still being in freefall. lol .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floridadiver81 0 #18 May 31, 2007 Quote That thing use to love getting to the ground Haha. Was like still being in freefall. lol And you're telling me to go lower than that!?!? umm....maybe ill stick to the 230 range."Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie "Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #19 May 31, 2007 To the best of my knowledge, "Tombstone" flies a Lo-po PD 9-cell. Ask him how much his canopy has degraded over time. I'm pretty sure he has a coupla hundred jumps on it."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #20 May 31, 2007 NO mate. The difference is this canopy was an F1-11 that had who knows how many jumps on it. What I am telling you to do is maybe look at going lower than a a 230 F1-11 to something like a 190-210 ZP. There is a big difference between F1-11's with loads of jumps on them and a ZP. You really need to speak to an instructor about the difference in an F1-11 and a ZP canopy. The biggest mistake a student can make about gear selection is to start looking for gear while still doing AFF as you have no clue about you should be looking for yet. Wait until you have 25-35 jumps and go speak to an instructor and your local dealer about what would be good for you. You might fly safer on a 190 ZP canopy than or a 210 than a 23-260 F1-11 canopy. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
