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NWFlyer

Moving Violations... Fight them or Accept Them?

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I encourage people who think they are right to fight their citations in court. Cops ain't always perfect.

There are some things you should consider though. You aren't hurting the cop one bit by taking it to court. The cop is going to drive his agency vehicle there, he is going to get paid extra money to be there (win, lose or draw) and in my personal experience even with an attorney very very few people win in traffic court (you might get a withhold of adjudication).

The violator will have to take time off of work, if you lose you will pay the original fine plus court costs, you will burn your own gas and if you hire an attorney they aren't cheap.

P.S. I haven't written a ticket in five years.
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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And the bullshit lies of "there are no quotas..." Give me a break. Tell me there are no quotas when the only time I see cops handing out speeding tickets is towards the end of the month. Yeah...right...no quotas.



Could be experiencing one of the Confirmation Bias thingies. Maybe it's during the end of the month that you might actually look for vehicles being pulled over but not paying attention while it's the middle or the beginning of the month.

Or maybe there's another reason for end-of-month pull overs. end-of-months are paydays to a lot of people. Maybe the commuters are more anxious. . .and anxious again during the middle-month (but not paid attention to). In your area, there may be something unique that happens that puts more people on the roads at the end of the month. for example, Military towns experience increase of driving at end of the months due to Leave and Transfers that are almost always takes place during this time. More people on the road, more violaters. Personally, I've noticed that CHP's here in Southern California are pulling people over more during tusedays through thursdays throughout the month.
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I don't know about in the US but in the UK even other police officers hate traffic officers for those exact reasons. They are called the black rats or shiny ass brigade because they sit in their cars all day >:(



"Traffic Cop" is one of the worst insults to 'real' LEOs (and i have several in my family so i am speaking from experience)

to be perfectly honest, its about best use of manpower and tax money.. Traffic citations are more about generating additional income than real public protection. In one case i had 4 cars (most of the shift in a small town) with me in GA because i was asking questions that were clearly intended to show the officer was FAR out of his operating parameters for the ticket he gave..

in that case i didnt even have to present my argument as the department had NO ONE show in court.. in cases like that the state OWES ME for my wasted time.. but of course hell will freeze over first...

in addition anyone going 55 when the prevailing traffic is going 80 is CAUSING the problem.. and how many tickets have you given for "going to slow" (than the posted limit)? that RARELY happens, even when it consistantly causes more issues than consistantly (even speeding) moving traffic.
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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"Traffic Cop" is one of the worst insults to 'real' LEOs



I asked an off-duty Fl State Trooper what his retirement plans were. He answered, "Join the Tampa PD."

I can think of two scenarios for the radar wolf packs on my road.
1- I lived on the most dangerous road in 5 states.
2- Real criminals are dangerous. Rich people quietly generate revenue.

If anyone thinks I'm kidding, pick a day and time. We'll go to that road. My $20 says there is someone doing radar. Totally serious bet.

"Sir, there is a crime wave here. We're going to need to buy more cars." :S

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And the bullshit lies of "there are no quotas..." Give me a break. Tell me there are no quotas when the only time I see cops handing out speeding tickets is towards the end of the month. Yeah...right...no quotas.



I have been a cop for 11 years and for two different departments. One of them was a small city PD that was very traffic enforcement oriented. I never heard of a "Quota".

Now they do keep stats for arrests made, tickets written, calls for service handled ect and if you have been a slacker all month and don't want to look like a lazy ass to your supervisor or peers, there may be some "catch up" at the end of the month. Never heard of a quota though.
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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Now they do keep stats for arrests made, tickets written



Ummm... you can only be a "lazy ass" if there is a statistical value that you are measured against.

Required quota of tickets... expected number of tickets...

Toe-may-toe... toe-mah-toe

"...robberies are down in this area... no one robbed a convenience store in their $80K Mercedes today." :S

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see herein lies the problem..

what if it was a slow week for actual crime?

lets invent some so we appear productive... [:/]

good thing fire departments dont have such ridiculous expectations of their personnel.... :S
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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Well it is your job, thats what they pay you to do. If the rest of your squad turns in x number of tickets and arrests and you have none, what have you been doing out there? Guarding the Seven Eleven?

If you have less tickets but more arrests fine. If you have few tickets but handled a lot of calls for service fine. If you don't have many arrests, calls for service, or tickets there is a problem.

I don't know maybe they do have "Quotas" someplace but no place I have ever worked. You are pretty much measured against your peers.
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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which is exactly the kind of "sheep's clothing' Quota i refered to in a previous post...

"no one was shot, no one was robbed or raped on my shift. Damn its going to look like i'm slacking.. i'd better sit on the road/intersection etc.. i know everyone speeds/runs on for a few hours......" actual Public safety goes out the window in place of a 'peer based' quota..
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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There are no slow weeks for crime (not here anyway). Dope is being bought and sold every day, someone will get shot or stabbed tonight (just like every night), calls are holding right now just like they always are.
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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and if for some reason you are not the one that responds to any of those?

Go write a few traffic tickets?

(not you personally just pointing out why this IS a Quota system)
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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Yes, self initiated activity (traffic stops) are a great way not to be a lazy cop. The option to write a ticket or not is entirely up to the officer. Traffic stops lead to drug arrests, warrant arrests, criminal traffic arrests and DUI arrests. Anyone who drives a car knows there are traffic violations all over the place. Just think how many you could make on your way to work if you were a cop.;)
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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what have you been doing out there? Guarding the Seven Eleven?



I can't even touch the logic there.

Crime prevention or crime investigation later?

As a Chinese friend told me:
In Western medicine, it is "How many sick patients did you bill today ?"
In Eastern medicine, it is "How healthy are your patients ?"

The theory of patrolling is, visibility means less crime.
My sons car was stolen in the middle of the day about 200 yds from a speed trap. Imagine my relief that Sally was caught doing 40 in a 35.
:S

I would prefer it if cars were used to patrol and prevent crime, not report it later. Boredom is the goal.

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Yeah, yeah and "don't you know there are murders out there? Why are you arresting me for X crime. Why don't you go out and catch some real criminals"? Typical cop whuffo stuff. Sorry my crystal ball was in the shop. LOL
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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The theory of patrolling is, visibility means less crime.
My sons car was stolen in the middle of the day about 200 yds from a speed trap. Imagine my relief that Sally was caught doing 40 in a 35.



Ofcourse when little Johnny gets run over and killed by a speeder in your neighborhood or your son is killed in an auto accident where a speeding car stikes his, it will be those damn cops don't do anything but sit at the donut shop or drive around. (has this thread gotten off track of what).:ph34r:
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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Why don't you go out and catch some real criminals"? Typical cop whuffo stuff. Sorry my crystal ball was in the shop.



Pretty embarrassing to read.

Is your reason for not patrolling is based on either a disbelief in its effectiveness?

Scenarios for reducing robberies.
1- Parking in front of frequently robbed convenience stores.
2- Patrolling wealthy neighborhoods full of stuff to steal.
3- Parking in front of bar and hitting on college girls.

"I'll take logic for $200 Alex..."

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Do you thing we are invisible while conducting self initaited activity in high crime areas?

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Scenarios for reducing robberies.
1- Parking in front of frequently robbed convenience stores.


That means they will rob the one down the street. (you can't be parked at all of them).


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2- Patrolling wealthy neighborhoods full of stuff to steal.


We do that but again you can't be every where at once. Once they see the patrol car go by they know you won't be by for a while.

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3- Parking in front of bar and hitting on college girls.


Shea, as if.
Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

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I know you're a rebbel, free thinker, dislike authority.

I will have to come over to Z-hills and jump with you, we can continue this over a beer.;)



I am a short-haired, graying, IT project leader who identifies tasks and allocates resources.

I'm not a beer drinker, but I'll take that Diet Pepsi.
:)

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Not gonna read the whole thread, but this got me thinking about that movie with Bill Murray's younger brother. Freaking hilarious!

Don't know if this is the same song used in the movie but.... :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r: Sorry for the caps...

OOH, OOH, MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)
YOU RAN THE STOP SIGN, MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)
WHEN YOU GAVE HIM WHAT WAS MINE, MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)
AIN'T NOTHIN' YOU CAN SAY, MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)
(THE GAMES YOU LOVE TO PLAY)

I SAW YOU AT THE WHEEL
AND YOU DROVE ME OUT OF MY MIND
YOU'VE BEEN CARELESS WITH MY LOVE
HURT ME A THOUSAND TIMES
AND THAT'S A MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)

(CHORUS)

GIRL I'M A WITNESS
GIRL I'M A WITNESS

(OH) OH, I PLACED YOU HIGH ABOVE THE REST
I GAVE YOU MY, MY VERY BEST
(BUT YOU PLAYED YOUR GAME) IT WAS JUST AN ACT
AND YOU GAVE YOUR LOVE WHEN I TURNED MY BACK

YOU'RE PUSHING ME BACK NOW BABY (PUSHING ME BACK, PUSHING ME BACK)
I'VE TAKEN ALL I CAN STAND (PUSHING ME BACK, ,PUSHING ME BACK)
BUT I SAW YOU STANDING THERE (YES I DID NOW)
GIVING HIM YOUR HAND (YOU GAVE HIM YOUR HAND)
AND THAT'S A MOVING VIOLATION (MOVING VIOLATION)

YOU SHOULD HAVE READ THE SIGN, MOVING VIOLATTION
WHEN YOU GAVE HIM WHAT WAS MINE, MOVING VIOLATION (STOP, RED LIGHT)
YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE HIM STOP (STOP, RED LIGHT)
OOH, RED LIGHT (STOP, RED LIGHT)(MOVING VIOLATION)
YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE HIM STOP (STOP, RED LIGHT)(MOVING VIOLATION)
SAW THEM AT THE RED LIGHT (STOP, RED LIGHT) (MOVING VIOLATION)
SHOULD HAVE MADE HIM PUT ON THE BREAKS (STOP)
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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