mnealtx 0
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QuoteYup...you were tying a slipknot.
The attached pic should help....
__________________________________________
That's a real good picture of the 'proper' knot. I like to finger-trap the excess line and just 'tack' the line with 2-turns of 'E'-thread. That keeps the excess from slipping out of the finger-trap.
Chuck
mnealtx 0
I figured it was easier to find a picture than to try to explain it.... 
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteI figured it was easier to find a picture than to try to explain it....
________________________________
You betcha! Nice job.
Chuck
skyblu3 0
Thanks everyone for your help. I got it done, my knot tying was wrong. With all the help from you guys that posted I managed to do it textbook.
The only thing now is that I'm left with 12 inches of excess line. It's seems like a lot to leave trailing behind my toggles. Having excess line doesn't really bother me as I've never had it fingertrapped on any of my canopies but I have never had this much. Do you think I can cut off about 7 inches and leave 5 inches excess. If I have to adjust my brake line I am most probably going to have to shorten it I assume. The way I see it is that I dont need more than 5 inches excess. What do you guys think??
The only thing now is that I'm left with 12 inches of excess line. It's seems like a lot to leave trailing behind my toggles. Having excess line doesn't really bother me as I've never had it fingertrapped on any of my canopies but I have never had this much. Do you think I can cut off about 7 inches and leave 5 inches excess. If I have to adjust my brake line I am most probably going to have to shorten it I assume. The way I see it is that I dont need more than 5 inches excess. What do you guys think??
DougH 270
Get a fid and finger trap it, it takes all of 10 seconds per side!!!
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P
=P
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteYup...you were tying a slipknot.
The attached pic should help....
__________________________________________
That's a real good picture of the 'proper' knot. I like to finger-trap the excess line and just 'tack' the line with 2-turns of 'E'-thread. That keeps the excess from slipping out of the finger-trap.
Chuck
Chuck, a question
I too hand tack the finger trap to keep the line in. I use the light super tack instead of E thread. I considered E but I thought the smaller light tack thread would be less abrasive on the spectra should some force get applied somehow. What do you think?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Fingertrap the line first. Make it so your finished line is about 3/8" or 1/2 longer than you wanted. Tie your overhand knot.
Now you have the proper length, and your fingertrap cannot come out unitl you untie the knot.
Now you have the proper length, and your fingertrap cannot come out unitl you untie the knot.
skyblu3 0
Ok, just to simplify things as I am not a rigger but I feel I have quite a good understanding of gear.
So you are saying I should finger trap the line from the brake setting mark and use the loop of the finger trap as the loop to pass the toggle through and then tie it off with a knot. So in essence it is sort of like making a closing loop for the main container (which I can do) but at the end of the brake line instead.
So you are saying I should finger trap the line from the brake setting mark and use the loop of the finger trap as the loop to pass the toggle through and then tie it off with a knot. So in essence it is sort of like making a closing loop for the main container (which I can do) but at the end of the brake line instead.
First, all the above advice is correct unless your lower control lines are dacron; if you have the bigger dacron control lines, the knot will be so huge there are better ways to attach toggles. But, assuming you do have spectra or some other small line as your lower steering lines, maybe this will help...
First, remember that whenever you finger-trap excess line inside itself, you will be making the finished length considerably shorter. So, if you have a factory mark that is the recommended distance from brake loop to toggle, you will need to make a new mark (or "imagaine" one) about an inch lower than the factory mark if you are going to finger trap several inches of excess. And secondly, remember this mark should be visible just above the toggle (towards the brake loop); it should not be in the loop or the knot you tie. If you finger-trap your excess before you form the loop and tie the knot, the knot will capture some of your finger-trapped excess line so no tacking will be required. The knot itself will secure the excess and it can't be pulled out if you do it this way. Conversely, if you finger-trap the excess after forming your loop, you'll have a little bit of exposed line that can be pulled out unless you tack it as mentioned by someone previously. And remember the whole reason for attaching the toggles in this manner is so you can easily change your knot in order to adjust the toggle distance to your personal preference. With most canopies, at full flight (with brakes released and toggles against the guide rings) there should be a slight bow in the control lines, and it should take "about" 4 inches of toggle pull to cause the tail of the canopy to begin to show deflection and start a turn.
First, remember that whenever you finger-trap excess line inside itself, you will be making the finished length considerably shorter. So, if you have a factory mark that is the recommended distance from brake loop to toggle, you will need to make a new mark (or "imagaine" one) about an inch lower than the factory mark if you are going to finger trap several inches of excess. And secondly, remember this mark should be visible just above the toggle (towards the brake loop); it should not be in the loop or the knot you tie. If you finger-trap your excess before you form the loop and tie the knot, the knot will capture some of your finger-trapped excess line so no tacking will be required. The knot itself will secure the excess and it can't be pulled out if you do it this way. Conversely, if you finger-trap the excess after forming your loop, you'll have a little bit of exposed line that can be pulled out unless you tack it as mentioned by someone previously. And remember the whole reason for attaching the toggles in this manner is so you can easily change your knot in order to adjust the toggle distance to your personal preference. With most canopies, at full flight (with brakes released and toggles against the guide rings) there should be a slight bow in the control lines, and it should take "about" 4 inches of toggle pull to cause the tail of the canopy to begin to show deflection and start a turn.
Yeah, it the same idea as a closing loop, but the knot is right next to the loop, as opposed to a few inches down the line.
I guess if you needed a 1" closing loop, it would be the exact same thing.
I guess if you needed a 1" closing loop, it would be the exact same thing.
rushmc 23
Quote
Fingertrap the line first. Make it so your finished line is about 3/8" or 1/2 longer than you wanted. Tie your overhand knot.
Now you have the proper length, and your fingertrap cannot come out unitl you untie the knot.
I understand that. What I was asking about was the line type to make a stictch in the finger trap to keep it from pulling out. Much like a bar tack does when making line sets.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quote...What I was asking about was the line type to make a stictch in the finger trap to keep it from pulling out. Much like a bar tack does when making line sets.
If you finger-trap the line BEFORE tying the overhand knot, no tacking is required, as the line is captured within the knot and cannot come out. This is by far the best way to do this. It just requires a little trial-and-error to get it firgured out so it ends up the right length after you form the loop with your knot.
skyblu3 0
It's a little more complicated than I thought.
My lines are spectra and yes I have a factory mark on the brake line. The manual shows that I should have the mark just outside the knot. I don't understand why I would need to move the mark (or make a new mark) because I am going to fingertrap the excess line. I can fingertrap the line into itself about 1 inch above the mark to form a loop. Then I can tie the knot below the loop and still have the mark just outside the knot. I can't see how this method will change the positioning of where the mark will be.
My lines are spectra and yes I have a factory mark on the brake line. The manual shows that I should have the mark just outside the knot. I don't understand why I would need to move the mark (or make a new mark) because I am going to fingertrap the excess line. I can fingertrap the line into itself about 1 inch above the mark to form a loop. Then I can tie the knot below the loop and still have the mark just outside the knot. I can't see how this method will change the positioning of where the mark will be.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote...What I was asking about was the line type to make a stictch in the finger trap to keep it from pulling out. Much like a bar tack does when making line sets.
If you finger-trap the line BEFORE tying the overhand knot, no tacking is required, as the line is captured within the knot and cannot come out. This is by far the best way to do this. It just requires a little trial-and-error to get it firgured out so it ends up the right length after you form the loop with your knot.
I am sorry if my post was confusing. I understant and I do make the knot before the finger trap. But as Chuck stated, to too use a couple of turns in the finger trap to keep it in place once the finger trap is completed. My question to him was directed more toward aceptable thread type to do the securing as to the knot or the finger trap itself.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
skyblu3 0
all this messing about got me thinking.
What if I fingertrapped the excess line after I make the knot and start a couple inces below the knot and then tie a second knot to hold the fingertrap in place.
It would solve the issues of line shrinkage, etc.. and that way I can have my toggles installed exactly on the factory brake setting mark.
What if I fingertrapped the excess line after I make the knot and start a couple inces below the knot and then tie a second knot to hold the fingertrap in place.
It would solve the issues of line shrinkage, etc.. and that way I can have my toggles installed exactly on the factory brake setting mark.
rushmc 23
Quoteall this messing about got me thinking.
What if I fingertrapped the excess line after I make the knot and start a couple inces below the knot and then tie a second knot to hold the fingertrap in place.
It would solve the issues of line shrinkage, etc.. and that way I can have my toggles installed exactly on the factory brake setting mark.
Be careful. If you get a knot up away from the toggle it can catch in the metal ring. If it does that at an inopportune time I would get interesting.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
mark 107
QuoteWhat if I fingertrapped the excess line after I make the knot and start a couple inces below the knot and then tie a second knot to hold the fingertrap in place.
It would solve the issues of line shrinkage, etc.. and that way I can have my toggles installed exactly on the factory brake setting mark.
Yes, you could have your toggles installed exactly on the mark.
No, your toggles would not be set at exactly the factory-recommended distance from the brake-set eye. Fingertrapping, knots, bartacks and other sewing all shorten the line.
Mark
QuoteI don't understand why I would need to move the mark (or make a new mark) because I am going to fingertrap the excess line. I can fingertrap the line into itself about 1 inch above the mark to form a loop. Then I can tie the knot below the loop and still have the mark just outside the knot. I can't see how this method will change the positioning of where the mark will be.
Take a piece of spectra and make two marks 10 inches apart. Now finger trap a piece of spectra inside the first one the full length of the line between the marks. Now measure the distance between the marks. You think it will measure 10 inches? It will measure about 8 inches.
The attached pic should help....
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
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