Rookie120 0 #1 August 27, 2006 (CBS/AP) Pilots of the Comair commuter jet that crashed with 50 people aboard near Lexington, Ky., used the wrong runway, CBS News has learned. Forty-nine of the 50 people aboard were killed. The one survivor, a crewmember, was reported in critical condition. U.S. officials who requested anonymity told CBS News Correspondent Bob Orr that the pilots apparently used a runway that was too short to accommodate the takeoff of the jet. The officials said the pilots had made "a critical and fatal mistake." The plane, Comair Flight 5191, a CRJ-200 regional jet with 47 passengers and three crew members, crashed at 6:07 a.m. Sunday after taking off for Atlanta, said Kathleen Bergen, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration. The plane was largely intact afterward, but there was a fire following the impact, police said. A little after 6 a.m., flight controllers gave the pilots clearance to take off from runway 22 and the pilots acknowledged the controllers with a "roger," Orr reports. However, it appears the pilots took off from runway 26, which is only half the size of the 7,000 foot runway 22. Sources tell Orr the radar tape and debris from the crash site suggest the plane never got airborne, that instead it went off the end of the runway and through a retaining area before settling into the crash site where it seems a significant post-crash fire erupted. Orr adds that two flights took off from the correct runway (22) just prior to the Comair flight's departure. Comair President Don Bornhorst confirmed the number of passengers, but gave very few details of the incident during a press conference Sunday morning. He urged victims' relatives to call (800) 801-0088 for more information. Quote This is a terrible accident! I have a fellow team member who was in ky visiting his mother this weekend who works in Atlanta. I felt the wave of ease when I called his cell phone and he actually answered it. Terrible shame for everyone on board.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveJack 1 #2 August 27, 2006 Quote(CBS/AP) Pilots of the Comair commuter jet that crashed with 50 people aboard near Lexington, Ky., used the wrong runway, CBS News has learned. (portion removed) A little after 6 a.m., flight controllers gave the pilots clearance to take off from runway 22 and the pilots acknowledged the controllers with a "roger," Orr reports. However, it appears the pilots took off from runway 26, which is only half the size of the 7,000 foot runway 22. QuoteI have flown out of Lexington and can see how this could happen. When you taxi out to runway 22 you have to cross 26 very close to where you normally start your take off roll for 22. The crew apparently blew it and took off on the first runway they came to. What a damn shame! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #3 August 27, 2006 Diver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board.............................smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #4 August 27, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, I have been waitting for his reply. It is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. If anybody ever see's these RJ's on takeoff you can see that they are ground hogs. At 3,500ft those people didnt have a chance. NTSB are supposed to have a briefing soon.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #5 August 27, 2006 Hi SDJ Not a pilot Is it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #6 August 27, 2006 Yes, the tower's instructions are repeated back by the flight crew along with the flight number. For example: Tower says, "United 123, 23-right, position and hold." f/c replies, "23-right, position and hold, United 123."NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #7 August 27, 2006 NTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. It is standard to give a readback to ATC after instructions were received.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #8 August 28, 2006 QuoteNTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. Here is the airport layout: www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=3553&Y=21064&W=1 Not only is 26 much shorter, it was also unlighted! Apparently 3 years ago another airliner almost made the same mistake, but the tower controller caught it. They filed a NASA ASRS report suggesting putting a warning up about it. Edited to clarify - the lights on 26 were NOTAMed as out of service. Don't know if they were actually out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #9 August 28, 2006 QuoteIt is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. I suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #10 August 28, 2006 Quote suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Thats what makes it such a shame. It's seems a real simple mistake but I was not there and do not know all of the data. Hopefully the co-pilot pulls through and can shed some light onto the NTSB.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 7 #11 August 28, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davedlg 0 #12 August 28, 2006 Here is the FAA airport diagram. After looking at it, I understand how that mistake could be made. What a tragic mistake. edit: here is the link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chaoskitty 0 #13 August 28, 2006 Wow.. big mistake. Scary. I was taking that flight twice a week this time last year when I was working in Lexington. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #14 August 28, 2006 so very sad. I too have flown into Lexington on CRJs and ERJs. Poor souls didn't have a chance on that short runway. Prayers and vibes to the lost and their families. Hope the FO pulls through. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #15 August 28, 2006 THis is a tragedy. This dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. He says lots of stupid stuff and claims to be in expert on everything. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #16 August 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard. From a 1993 ASRS report: "Aircraft was cleared for immediate takeoff (traffic was inside the marker) on runway 22 at KLEX. We taxied onto the runway and told tower we needed a moment to check our departure routing with our weather radar (storms were in the area, raining at the airport). We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at that moment, tower called us to cancel the takeoff clearance because we were lined up on runway 26. We taxied clear and then held short of runway 22 for landing traffic. We took off on runway 22 and proceeded without incident. Possible contributing factors were poor visibbility and weather (rain. Confusing runway intersection and tower's request for an immediate takeoff. Suggest possible warning page (similar to Houston Hobby) to clarify multiple runway ends." Conflicting info in the news about the status of the runway lights on 22 and 26.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brianfry713 0 #17 August 28, 2006 Something like 85% of airplane crashes are caused by pilot error. It's probably a similar % for skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #18 August 28, 2006 Chris, shouldn't 3500 ft available have been enough room? ah,.....over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lauraliscious 0 #19 August 28, 2006 3500 ft. is the runway length. And no, it's not enough room for a jet to take off. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #20 August 28, 2006 QuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #21 August 29, 2006 Lots of jets need less than 3500 ft. Lots of jets need more than 3500 ft.... The balanced field takeoff for a CRJ-100 would definitely be more. However, at their weight/field conditions, 3500 should have been about what they needed to get airborne. or close to it........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #22 August 29, 2006 Quote We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at One of the final checks prior to takeoff is supposed to be checking the the plane's compass or DG heading against the runway heading, to prevent this type of mistake. Kind of like checking your handles prior to exit. The FAA has long known that runway and taxiway markings need an improved system. I don't know if much progress has been made on that. Airport surveillance radar could have made a difference, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #23 August 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? How quickly can you stop at 200 mph? Can they even see straight ahead and down out of the front window?Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #24 August 29, 2006 I wonder if their charts were up to date? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #25 August 29, 2006 Hi Mr Mitchell Do you have any info how commen it is for a airport of this size to only have one person in the tower at the time the accident occurred. We're wondering if the decision to increase the peeps in the tower was planned prior to the accident Lucky for the flying public your way to young to retire. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
SkydiveJack 1 #2 August 27, 2006 Quote(CBS/AP) Pilots of the Comair commuter jet that crashed with 50 people aboard near Lexington, Ky., used the wrong runway, CBS News has learned. (portion removed) A little after 6 a.m., flight controllers gave the pilots clearance to take off from runway 22 and the pilots acknowledged the controllers with a "roger," Orr reports. However, it appears the pilots took off from runway 26, which is only half the size of the 7,000 foot runway 22. QuoteI have flown out of Lexington and can see how this could happen. When you taxi out to runway 22 you have to cross 26 very close to where you normally start your take off roll for 22. The crew apparently blew it and took off on the first runway they came to. What a damn shame! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #3 August 27, 2006 Diver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board.............................smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #4 August 27, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, I have been waitting for his reply. It is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. If anybody ever see's these RJ's on takeoff you can see that they are ground hogs. At 3,500ft those people didnt have a chance. NTSB are supposed to have a briefing soon.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #5 August 27, 2006 Hi SDJ Not a pilot Is it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattjw916 2 #6 August 27, 2006 Yes, the tower's instructions are repeated back by the flight crew along with the flight number. For example: Tower says, "United 123, 23-right, position and hold." f/c replies, "23-right, position and hold, United 123."NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #7 August 27, 2006 NTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. It is standard to give a readback to ATC after instructions were received.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #8 August 28, 2006 QuoteNTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. Here is the airport layout: www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=3553&Y=21064&W=1 Not only is 26 much shorter, it was also unlighted! Apparently 3 years ago another airliner almost made the same mistake, but the tower controller caught it. They filed a NASA ASRS report suggesting putting a warning up about it. Edited to clarify - the lights on 26 were NOTAMed as out of service. Don't know if they were actually out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #9 August 28, 2006 QuoteIt is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. I suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rookie120 0 #10 August 28, 2006 Quote suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Thats what makes it such a shame. It's seems a real simple mistake but I was not there and do not know all of the data. Hopefully the co-pilot pulls through and can shed some light onto the NTSB.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 7 #11 August 28, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davedlg 0 #12 August 28, 2006 Here is the FAA airport diagram. After looking at it, I understand how that mistake could be made. What a tragic mistake. edit: here is the link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chaoskitty 0 #13 August 28, 2006 Wow.. big mistake. Scary. I was taking that flight twice a week this time last year when I was working in Lexington. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites micro 0 #14 August 28, 2006 so very sad. I too have flown into Lexington on CRJs and ERJs. Poor souls didn't have a chance on that short runway. Prayers and vibes to the lost and their families. Hope the FO pulls through. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #15 August 28, 2006 THis is a tragedy. This dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. He says lots of stupid stuff and claims to be in expert on everything. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,146 #16 August 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard. From a 1993 ASRS report: "Aircraft was cleared for immediate takeoff (traffic was inside the marker) on runway 22 at KLEX. We taxied onto the runway and told tower we needed a moment to check our departure routing with our weather radar (storms were in the area, raining at the airport). We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at that moment, tower called us to cancel the takeoff clearance because we were lined up on runway 26. We taxied clear and then held short of runway 22 for landing traffic. We took off on runway 22 and proceeded without incident. Possible contributing factors were poor visibbility and weather (rain. Confusing runway intersection and tower's request for an immediate takeoff. Suggest possible warning page (similar to Houston Hobby) to clarify multiple runway ends." Conflicting info in the news about the status of the runway lights on 22 and 26.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brianfry713 0 #17 August 28, 2006 Something like 85% of airplane crashes are caused by pilot error. It's probably a similar % for skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #18 August 28, 2006 Chris, shouldn't 3500 ft available have been enough room? ah,.....over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lauraliscious 0 #19 August 28, 2006 3500 ft. is the runway length. And no, it's not enough room for a jet to take off. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #20 August 28, 2006 QuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Beerlight 0 #21 August 29, 2006 Lots of jets need less than 3500 ft. Lots of jets need more than 3500 ft.... The balanced field takeoff for a CRJ-100 would definitely be more. However, at their weight/field conditions, 3500 should have been about what they needed to get airborne. or close to it........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #22 August 29, 2006 Quote We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at One of the final checks prior to takeoff is supposed to be checking the the plane's compass or DG heading against the runway heading, to prevent this type of mistake. Kind of like checking your handles prior to exit. The FAA has long known that runway and taxiway markings need an improved system. I don't know if much progress has been made on that. Airport surveillance radar could have made a difference, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #23 August 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? How quickly can you stop at 200 mph? Can they even see straight ahead and down out of the front window?Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #24 August 29, 2006 I wonder if their charts were up to date? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #25 August 29, 2006 Hi Mr Mitchell Do you have any info how commen it is for a airport of this size to only have one person in the tower at the time the accident occurred. We're wondering if the decision to increase the peeps in the tower was planned prior to the accident Lucky for the flying public your way to young to retire. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jumpwally 0 #3 August 27, 2006 Diver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board.............................smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #4 August 27, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, I have been waitting for his reply. It is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. If anybody ever see's these RJ's on takeoff you can see that they are ground hogs. At 3,500ft those people didnt have a chance. NTSB are supposed to have a briefing soon.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #5 August 27, 2006 Hi SDJ Not a pilot Is it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #6 August 27, 2006 Yes, the tower's instructions are repeated back by the flight crew along with the flight number. For example: Tower says, "United 123, 23-right, position and hold." f/c replies, "23-right, position and hold, United 123."NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #7 August 27, 2006 NTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. It is standard to give a readback to ATC after instructions were received.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #8 August 28, 2006 QuoteNTSB just said that the info that they have gathered says they tried to takeoff from runway 26. (The short one).This is a damn shame. QuoteIs it SOP when the tower or center gives instructions to a flt crew they repeat the instructions rather than just acknowledge instructions were recieved. Here is the airport layout: www.terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=16&X=3553&Y=21064&W=1 Not only is 26 much shorter, it was also unlighted! Apparently 3 years ago another airliner almost made the same mistake, but the tower controller caught it. They filed a NASA ASRS report suggesting putting a warning up about it. Edited to clarify - the lights on 26 were NOTAMed as out of service. Don't know if they were actually out.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #9 August 28, 2006 QuoteIt is a damn shame if this comes down to be pilot error. I suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #10 August 28, 2006 Quote suppose anything is possible but............that seems fairly obvious. Doesn't it? Thats what makes it such a shame. It's seems a real simple mistake but I was not there and do not know all of the data. Hopefully the co-pilot pulls through and can shed some light onto the NTSB.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 7 #11 August 28, 2006 QuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davedlg 0 #12 August 28, 2006 Here is the FAA airport diagram. After looking at it, I understand how that mistake could be made. What a tragic mistake. edit: here is the link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #13 August 28, 2006 Wow.. big mistake. Scary. I was taking that flight twice a week this time last year when I was working in Lexington. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #14 August 28, 2006 so very sad. I too have flown into Lexington on CRJs and ERJs. Poor souls didn't have a chance on that short runway. Prayers and vibes to the lost and their families. Hope the FO pulls through. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #15 August 28, 2006 THis is a tragedy. This dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. He says lots of stupid stuff and claims to be in expert on everything. jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #16 August 28, 2006 QuoteQuoteDiver Driver should be able to shed more light on this, as he is a Capt on that same type of craft , as well as my wife a flight attendant on that same type of craft at the same airline,but not Comair. Blue skies to all on board............................. Not much light to shed. But I would say this didn't not have much to do with it being a CRJ. This type of accident has happened before. All other details are yet to be gathered and interpreted before conclusions are made. I have personally flown out of this airport too on the CRJ. The ends of the two runways are very close. However, signage should have been proper to show which runway they were entering. This too will have to be looked at. This hits in the gut pretty hard. From a 1993 ASRS report: "Aircraft was cleared for immediate takeoff (traffic was inside the marker) on runway 22 at KLEX. We taxied onto the runway and told tower we needed a moment to check our departure routing with our weather radar (storms were in the area, raining at the airport). We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at that moment, tower called us to cancel the takeoff clearance because we were lined up on runway 26. We taxied clear and then held short of runway 22 for landing traffic. We took off on runway 22 and proceeded without incident. Possible contributing factors were poor visibbility and weather (rain. Confusing runway intersection and tower's request for an immediate takeoff. Suggest possible warning page (similar to Houston Hobby) to clarify multiple runway ends." Conflicting info in the news about the status of the runway lights on 22 and 26.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #17 August 28, 2006 Something like 85% of airplane crashes are caused by pilot error. It's probably a similar % for skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #18 August 28, 2006 Chris, shouldn't 3500 ft available have been enough room? ah,.....over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lauraliscious 0 #19 August 28, 2006 3500 ft. is the runway length. And no, it's not enough room for a jet to take off. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #20 August 28, 2006 QuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #21 August 29, 2006 Lots of jets need less than 3500 ft. Lots of jets need more than 3500 ft.... The balanced field takeoff for a CRJ-100 would definitely be more. However, at their weight/field conditions, 3500 should have been about what they needed to get airborne. or close to it........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #22 August 29, 2006 Quote We realized our heading was not currect for our assigned runway and at One of the final checks prior to takeoff is supposed to be checking the the plane's compass or DG heading against the runway heading, to prevent this type of mistake. Kind of like checking your handles prior to exit. The FAA has long known that runway and taxiway markings need an improved system. I don't know if much progress has been made on that. Airport surveillance radar could have made a difference, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #23 August 29, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis dumbazz I work with just said, I don't understand why they just couldn't slam on the brakes once they realizied the runaway to short. That doesn't seem like such a dumb question to me: 1) How long does it take you visually recognize that you are on the wrong, short runway?; 2) How much runway is remaining at this point?; 3) How much speed do you have at this point?; and, 4) How much distance do you need to stop from that speed? How quickly can you stop at 200 mph? Can they even see straight ahead and down out of the front window?Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #24 August 29, 2006 I wonder if their charts were up to date? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #25 August 29, 2006 Hi Mr Mitchell Do you have any info how commen it is for a airport of this size to only have one person in the tower at the time the accident occurred. We're wondering if the decision to increase the peeps in the tower was planned prior to the accident Lucky for the flying public your way to young to retire. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
