billvon 3,118 #76 September 5, 2006 I'm a scuba diver, and would be interested in seeing it just in terms of how close he was to the sand when he got hit, and whether there was any warning or any way to tell that the ray was in the area. Other than that, no. I've seen enough people die in person. Not an issue of dignity or morals or anything, I would just have no desire to see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #77 September 5, 2006 QuoteI'm a scuba diver, and would be interested in seeing it just in terms of how close he was to the sand when he got hit, and whether there was any warning or any way to tell that the ray was in the area. Other than that, no. I've seen enough people die in person. Not an issue of dignity or morals or anything, I would just have no desire to see it. __________________________________ From what I've read and heard, he was just above the ray, when it struck. He pulled the barb from his chest. To me, that's plenty of information. That would mean to me, stay from above a ray or out of range of it's tail. I think, other information garnered from his death could be helpful. As far as viewing the video of him in death, it would be about the same as if a friend or son or daughter was in a fatal accident and someone videoed it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #78 September 5, 2006 QuoteNo, Douva, he's not one of those - it ends up that it was placating his wife and she was the one that didn't want to go any more. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in this country can't combine basic math with basic logic. Tell your friend to remind his wife that she's thirty times more likely to be killed by falling airplane parts than to die from a shark attack and that shark related deaths are MUCH more common than sting ray related deaths. Do you know anyone who's been killed by falling airplane parts? Exactly!I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #79 September 5, 2006 Uh, the picture I saw of that exicution you could see the bullet on the other side of his head.....So it is during/after...Not before."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #80 September 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteNo, Douva, he's not one of those - it ends up that it was placating his wife and she was the one that didn't want to go any more. It never ceases to amaze me how many people in this country can't combine basic math with basic logic. Tell your friend to remind his wife that she's thirty times more likely to be killed by falling airplane parts than to die from a shark attack and that shark related deaths are MUCH more common than sting ray related deaths. Do you know anyone who's been killed by falling airplane parts? Exactly! I didn't say I agreed. I just can't make decisions for him.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #81 September 5, 2006 Irrational fear is just that. irrational. it grinds my gears, too. but the only thing that MIGHT help it is education. BTW- Car, what do you think my avatar implies?My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #82 September 5, 2006 I'm curious, too. And, I'm also a scuba diver. Certainly it is not up to me to decide whether or not something can be learned and taken from seeing the footage of Irwin's death. Ironically it would only be after seeing the footage I could definitively say imo whether it should have been shown or not. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #83 September 5, 2006 QuoteUh, the picture I saw of that exicution you could see the bullet on the other side of his head This is true. A larger version of the picture examined more carefully would reveal that. Of course, I simply posted a familiar picture and made note of its fame. I would have hoped anyone responding to it would have either A. already been familiar with it or B. done a little research first. I myself just did a little more investigating and found this link which I found interesting. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/666noxlw.asp (The article also mentions the bullet exiting the prisoner's head in the photo.) Bobbi's original question was of morals. Is it morally right or wrong to air a man's death publicly and why/why not? Red herrings aside, I felt this particular photo evokes a lot of thought on that subject; regardless of how one ultimately feels about its publishing. In addition, since it is a past event it is a lot easier for one to form an opinion as to whether or not it should or should not have been made available to the public.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #84 September 5, 2006 QuoteIf there's one thing every wildlife expert agrees on, it's that wild animals are unpredictable. Rather than responding with a knee-jerk conservationist reaction and impugning Irwin's actions and integrity before the facts are in, how about simply looking at this incident as further evidence that "shit happens" and waiting for further evidence before drawing a conclusion? Stingrays aren't endangered, and I don't foresee this incident leading to a backlash against the species. And it should be noted that the giant manta rays you swam with in Fiji don't have stingers, so your extensive diving experience may not qualify you as an expert on stingrays. I'm definitely not an expert and never said I was. I never even said I was a conservationist. Or a knee-jerker for that matter. Sure, shit happens. When you feed crocs, shit happens. When you dive with rays, shit happens. This was an individual that made a living putting himself in a position where shit was very likely to happen for the "entertainment" of people at the expense of wild animals. I don't think they should have to suffer for it. Nor do I believe we'll ever see the video, because it's likely that shit happened for a reason in this case, and some people would rather see bad things happen to animals than admit that a loved one screwed up or lose money from it. I would be happy to be wrong about it, and all I can do is relay my own experience (without ever stating that I am an expert) and why I think this happened. Yep, it is speculation, and I have no problem speculating in Bonfire.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #85 September 5, 2006 >To me, that's plenty of information. Hmm. What does the sand on top of a ray look like? How far above it was he? How long was the ray's tail? Is this the sort of barb that is is embedded _within_ the tail? If so, how does it strike? Would being behind it make one safe, or more at risk? I've seen cuttlefish 'attacks' (not much of a risk) and been attacked by a small octopus, which is a lot like being covered by pieces of duct tape that don't let go. But I've never even _seen_ a stingray's barb, so I don't know how it attacks or where one would have to be to avoid it. I've also never seen one covered with sand; I don't know if I could tell a stingray-shaped lump of sand from anything else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #86 September 5, 2006 QuoteI don't know if I could tell a stingray-shaped lump of sand from anything else Certainly, you might not. And furthermore, it's a little silly to think what can be learned from Irwin's death is "stay away from the top of a ray" when, in fact, people pet them in the wild all the time w/out incidence. But we do know rays CAN sting and such stings CAN be deadly; like anything else. I agree with the points made that there will be some who probably will regard the usually docile ray as a threat now and be more likely to kill it. That really, REALLY saddens me. But, I don't think airing or not airing the footgage has anything to do with that. Just word of mouth regarding what happened "man dies by ray sting" is enough for some people, unfortunately. P.S. Ellen is on now. And I love her show. So I must go.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #87 September 5, 2006 Perhaps, visiting with divers who have been around rays in the water could help. I didn't know the eatin' end from the poopin' end of a bull till I got with others who had knowledge of bulls. I didn't have to watch video of a man being gored to death to know they can kill you. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #88 September 5, 2006 I don't want to see it anymore than I want to watch it anymore than I want to watch footage of a Skydiver going in. Would any of you want to watch that?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #89 September 5, 2006 QuoteI'm a scuba diver, and would be interested in seeing it just in terms of how close he was to the sand when he got hit, and whether there was any warning or any way to tell that the ray was in the area. I have to agree Bill. I grew up with sting rays being all around me in FL everytime I went wading or swimming in the Gulf or in the Atlantic. I have swum above them for some distance and watched their graceful "flight" thru the water. I inadvertanly kicked one in the sand when I was 12 and it "stung" me. I have a very nice scar on my foot as a reminder... it hurt like hell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #90 September 5, 2006 Fair enough but we don't need to actually see the moment of the attack and the aftermath.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #91 September 5, 2006 QuoteI don't know how it attacks or where one would have to be to avoid it. They just aired a segment on CNN from an aquarium where they showed the barb and provoked a young sting ray into striking. Apparently the barbs grow back like fingernails, so some aquariums trim them for safety reasons. Interesting stuff.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #92 September 5, 2006 Quoteso some aquariums trim them for safety reasons. Interesting stuff. That does sound interesting. I'll see if I can DVR it on CNN.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #93 September 5, 2006 >visiting with divers who have been around rays in the water could help. I've been around em too; I just never saw one strike, and I don't know how to find one that's under the sand. I know their stinger is in an odd place but I don't know the mechanics of how it strikes, or how it could end up in someone's chest. >I didn't have to watch video of a man being gored to death to know >they can kill you. True, but I've seen angry bulls going after someone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #94 September 5, 2006 Give me Dirty Laundry!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #95 September 5, 2006 Unless it would serve some educational purpose (which I doubt) then it should not be shown; even if for no other reason than consideration for his family. Richards My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #96 September 5, 2006 We're not the only ones asking this question... http://www.smh.com.au/polls/national/results.htmlWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #97 September 5, 2006 QuoteWe're not the only ones asking this question... Of course we're not, silly. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #98 September 5, 2006 Really? i didnt know anything else existed out side of DZ.comMy photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #99 September 5, 2006 Ohhhh, Joe. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #100 September 5, 2006 well I wasn't sure anything existed out side of this microcosm.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
