Cobalt openings

[AMax 0]

Folks,
I have a question about Cobalt openings. I just got my standard mode Cobalt relined after putting about 500 jumps on the original spectra lineset (the canopy was relined after total ~ 700 jumps). Before reline, the openings were always smooth but not always on heading. Now, with the new lines the wing flies great and always opens on heading however the openings became much faster. In fact, I got slammed last weekend The person who changed the lineset is a very experienced and respected rigger, recommended by Atair, so I have no doubt that he did a good job.
So the question is how do I make it open slower? The first thing that comes to my mind is a pilot chute. I am using a 28 inch PC since Sunpath recommends this size for their Javelins. I know that Atair recommends smaller PCs for Cobalts however I have never had any problems with openings with the larger PC on the same canopy before re-lining it!
Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks!

[cobaltdan 0]

we recommend 24" pilots because they are safer in the event of a premature deployment at freefly speeds.

for normal deployments you will not notice a difference between a 28 or 24" pilot.

as to the openings being faster, they probably are slightly: canopies will always feel a bit different after jumping a ragged line set to a new one. give it a bunch of jumps, settle in puting some time on the canopy, any issues give us a call.

-d

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[AMax 0]

Thanks Dan,

I hope my neck survives the next few openings

[diablopilot 2]

Dan, I want to thank you for a clear, concise, and honest answer. I have not agreed with you much in the past, but your post in this thread is spot on and I appreciate that.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[IMGR2 0]

If nothing changes, I should be up in Dallas in a few weeks and I will take a look at it.

BTW, I'm gonna try and ship that container to you today.

[AMax 0]

Cool, thanks, Bryan

[NewClearSports 0]

***I hope my neck survives the next few openings

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I'm sorry but I have to pipe up here because I still have neck issues 3yr after the Cobalt that I had.

Now I will agree with anyone that the Cobalt is an awsome flying wing, but IMO with openings it is hit and miss. Some open great, some open like crap.
The one I bought was slaming me every 1 out of 10 jumps (on average), after about 40 jumps (from new) I sent it back to Atair. It was test jumped, they said there was nothing really wrong with it, but they put a bigger slider on for overall softer openings. Well the openings were on average a little softer, but I still got slamed time to time. It got to where I hated pull time, because It was like russian rullett weather I would have another pulled neck mussle.
Anyway to make a very long story short, I did everything that Atair suggested, smaller PC, Dumping in a track, ect. ect.
What the end solution was for me, to sell it cheap and buy a Xaos. Since that day, I have never had a single hard opening anywere close to what I had on my Cobalt. With the Xaos I went back to a bigger PC 32" (Which buy the way is alot safer to avoid mals, exp. when doing hop & pops), I can dump in any body position I like, I don't even need to slow down after a breakoff for HD.
Now I'm not posting this to promote Xaos, I'm just saying that I think Atair should take there "hard opening" issues more seriously and should work harder to resolving the heart of the issue, rather then just going on with there bandaid fixes of smaller PC,s, Dumping in a track, different packing tecniques, ect. ect.
It also bothers me to here Dan say to just jump it and see what happens. Its not his neck getting torn. And believe me repeated hard openings can cause severe neck injuryies that can last years and years.[url]

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[phoenixlpr 0]

I have a Cobalt 135. That is a softest open canopy I have ever jumped like falling into a pillow case.

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

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I have a Cobalt 135. That is a softest open canopy I have ever jumped like falling into a pillow case.

I think thats the hit or miss phenomenon NewClearSports was talking about.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I think thats the hit or miss phenomenon NewClearSports was talking about.

It could be. I'm feeling lucky.

[TaylorC 0]

i have a cobalt 135 right now and i hate the openings but love the canopy in flight. But anyways goodbye cobalt hello Crossfire :D

[yjumpinoz 0]

I must be lucky to with my 105. Overall very happy with it.

[phoenixlpr 0]

What is the DOM of yours? I can check mine tomorrow.

[NewClearSports 0]

***I have a Cobalt 135. That is a softest open canopy I have ever jumped like falling into a pillow case.

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I think thats the hit or miss phenomenon NewClearSports was talking about.

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Exactily!!! I would even go as far as to say probably 90% (or more) of them open great, but what happens to the other 10% of us stuck with ones hurting us?
Now it sounds like to me, MAX had a good one, but after the reline things changed, and it is possible that its now a bad one.

If this is the case, get it fixed, don't let your neck get screwed up, and don't put up with BS about "It must be sloppy packing", "you need a smaller PC", "you should dump in a track" ect. ect.
At least you have the argument it wasn't like that before the reline and everything else is the same.

I'm alot more experienced and knoledgeable now about canopy flight and aerodynamics ect. thanks to more jumps more experience on other canopys and Brian Germain's course (Can't say enough about how great that was, and Brian's an amazing teacher).
So looking back on it now, I wasn't confident enough at that time to tell Atair where to shove that Cobalt. They actually convinced me that maybe it was just me. BUT definetly there was something wrong with it and after a couple of weeks when the guy I sold it to called me back to say whats up with these openings, all I could do is give him the same BS Atair gave me. I still feel like sh*t for selling that thing (even though I practicaly gave it away) because that's not the way I like to do business, and either should it be for Atair.

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[TaylorC 0]

2001 or 2002 i can't remember woujld have to unpack to check

[phoenixlpr 0]

My has 08/2004.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Exactily!!! I would even go as far as to say probably 90% (or more) of them open great, but what happens to the other 10% of us stuck with ones hurting us?

I think even smaller number and frequent owner changes can yield to lots of complains.

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So looking back on it now, I wasn't confident enough at that time to tell Atair where to shove that Cobalt. They actually convinced me that maybe it was just me. BUT definetly there was something wrong with it and after a couple of weeks when the guy I sold it to called me back to say whats up with these openings, all I could do is give him the same BS Atair gave me. I still feel like sh*t for selling that thing (even though I practicaly gave it away) because that's not the way I like to do business, and either should it be for Atair.

I've read this kind of opinions too. I still think that the Cobalt is an awesome design and choosing it was a perfect choice for the first elliptical.

I have demod a Vison 132, meanwhile my Cobalt was coming. That Vision felt like a wild ride and less stable, lot more over steer. I was really surprised after having my first jump. It felt like an extension of my body and I'm still getting surprised of the high amount of bottom end flare.

[Ronaldo 0]

I have a Cobalt 150 and really love it but I had a very similar experience at the beginning. I bought it new and put about 150 jumps without any major incidents but a few fast openings (I followed all Atair’s recommendations since the beginning, including the 24”PC). Openings were usually the same, a short snivel with a fast inflation. I have always packed my chute (psychopacking) but due to some coached jumps I had to leave my rig with hired packers in order to have some time to debrief. That’s when I noticed the issue. I started to experience about one slammer in each 5 openings. Tried different packers and the result was the same. These guys pack many different canopies without any problems so I doubt it was their fault. At the same time a friend of mine had just received his brand new Competition Cobalt 170. He put about 20 jumps on it and experienced the same problems (1 slammer in each 4-5 jumps). I sent his canopy to Atair and after some test jumps they did recognize the problem and added a pocket slider to it. We were not pleased with the solution so I returned the canopy. Atair refunded the total amount and he bought a Crossfire 2 in same week.
After solving his problem (I felt very bad because I was the one that recommended the canopy to him) I sent mine for evaluation too. Unfortunately Atair didn’t seem to find anything wrong with it so as my last shot I paid them to do an H-mod on the canopy. At that time I was jumping a Crossfire which I bought cheap and used just to save my neck. When I started jumping the Cobalt again I could not believe the openings. They were softer than any Spectre or Crossfire I have ever jumped and most important, really consistent. The improvement in performance was also noticeable; now I’m getting really nice swoops on it. The canopy is really a pleasure to fly and land once you have the opening issues solved.
Throughout all this time we tried to follow all Atair’s recommendations regarding packing, PC, not grabbing the risers, etc but I really feel the problem was in the canopy. IMHO a modern canopy should open well and soft with just a good flaking and the slider quartered and positioned against the slider stops. If you have to do a lot of tricks to make it open acceptably (special PC, rolling the nose or the tail 100 times, packing facing Mecca, etc.) then it’s a design or construction problem.
I have absolutely no experience in canopy design but as an engineer I think the Cobalt may have a certain design parameter (or parameters) optimized but very close to a borderline. If for some reason (manufacturing errors, line trim, etc) the canopy gets too close to this limit then it will respond with erratic openings. Maybe in my case the psychopacking was keeping the packing more controlled and behind this borderline, who knows? After the H-mod I can PRO or Psycho pack it and the openings are absolutely the same.

Sake skies!

Ronaldo

Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

[NewClearSports 0]

***We were not pleased with the solution so I returned the canopy. Atair refunded the total amount

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This is good to here! If I had a "Satasfaction garantee" in writing, I would consider buying from them again (Probably the X-1), because they do make some amazing canopys.

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[VectorBoy 0]

I paid them to do an H-mod on the canopy. At that time I was jumping a Crossfire which I bought cheap and used just to save my neck. When I started jumping the Cobalt again I could not believe the openings. They were softer than any Spectre or Crossfire I have ever jumped and most important, really consistent. The improvement in performance was also noticeable;
Ronaldo

[matt3sa 0]

I've been flying a Cobalt 135 all season. My odd openings included diving/spinning, and slammers. The diving spinning, was related to my posture while in the harness. It's quite sensitive to harness input at loads of 1.6 or higher (especially when the brakes are stowed). You have to let your body completely relax. You'll feel the leg straps pulling upward on your legs, but don't use your muscles to force both straps to be even. The canopy will do that on it's own. On the hard openings, I found that I don't really care for their factory sliders. They really don't stay open like PD sliders. Just before you go to wrap the tail, really stretch that slider out with some quick snaps. Then pull the grommets around the cloth where the lines attach to the canopy and that will lock it in place better. Also, just make sure you roll the crap out of the tail. I'm getting a PD slider for mine.

[airdog07 0]

what size is the original cobalt slider and what size are you replacing with (what is the dimension of both slider).
has any body the you know use the pd slider on cobalt before ?

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